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So I want grindy gut wrenching lows...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Joe Gress, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Joe Gress

    Joe Gress

    Dec 22, 2005
    Pueblo, CO
    ...and my 210 is just not doing it for me. It's just doesn't go deep enough before farting out, and its too clear and precise in the mid range (I'm going to go ahead and say to much Jaco, not enough grind). I've been thinking of all my favorite bass tones, and I'm starting to realize that most of these guys use bigger speakers other than 10's. A good portion of them do use 810's, but I can't afford something like that, and I really don't need one quite yet. But I was thinking that a 212 or even a 215 might suffice my quest for tone.

    Some examples btw:

    Yes I do realize that most of these guys are running cranked tube amps and Al is even running a distortion pedal. I can't afford a tube amp right now, but I can get a VT bass. :hyper:
    Next on my list is a tube amp, but until then my GK 700RB-II is doing me just fine. Except for the fact that I am sending all 480 watts at a 500 watt 210, and it's not getting the lows I want, or the grind I want without farting out. It's an Avatar 210 btw.

    I have tried both a Mesa Boogie 215 and a Berg 215 and both of them sounded super fantastic, including at near ear splitting volume. I was testing them with an SVT and a Mesa M9. The lows were definitely there, and the with a little eq'ing and pushing the amp hard, I got a bit of the grind I'm looking for. I have not tried a 212 yet, but I'm thinking it may not be a bad idea to look into.

    So now here's the kicker. I want to build this cab. :D

    My roommate has been building his own cabs for 5-6 years now, and he told me that if I buy the speakers and the hardware, he could definitely build one for me. I told him I would help. Of all the available plans out there, which do you guys recommend for a 212 or 215? Also, sealed or ported? Which will be defined, but incredibly present in the low end? Also, speaker recommendations? Celestion? Eminence? Peavey? Any others? Best place to buy?
  2. Ric5

    Ric5 Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jan 29, 2008
    I grow organic carrots and they are not for sale
    The best way to get real low end is to 1st have an active 3 or 4 band preamp in your bass that has a bass knob that boosts 40hz. 2nd have a big pa with 18" subs. Then you can produce lows that can be felt as well as heard. And a 5 string bass will help as well.
  3. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Chances are you're best off with another 2x10 the same as the first, assuming it's a good quality 2x10. That will give you more output than a 2x12 can deliver, and almost as much as a 2x15.
    If he knows what he's doing he'd know the answers to these questions. Ergo...
    The skills necessary to successfully design and build your own cab take years to acquire and develop. For a newbie it's better to build from existing plans. The fEarful threads are one place to start looking.
  4. Lammchop93

    Lammchop93 Supporting Member

    Feb 4, 2007
    Louisville, KY
    Drop tuning definitely will give you some grind. Maybe lower you action a bit so you get just a tad of fret buzz, and play really hard. That's what I do to get a similar tone. I have my EQ flat with the Bass and Low-mids slightly boosted.
  5. ehque


    Jan 8, 2006
    +1. That, and more power. Probably would be a good time to go looking for this tube amp of yours.
  6. Want a good starter build? Grab the EV TL606 plans (you'll find them in the FAQ's) and build as a 215 cab. Load it with 2 Eminence Kapplite 3015's. Think you would be very pleased. With the string button in on the 700RB II you may re-think lugging around a big tube amp! Tubes are not magic, nice yes, but not "nessary". All my full tube amps are gone and I get more than I need from a good hybrid amp.
  7. Unless you need to fill up a stadium, I'd also recommend a GK700RB-II and a 212.

    Crank up the boost and adjust the master fr volume. A tweak to bass, run with the 5 string mode selected.

    The reason I said what I did about a stadium is that then and only then would I suggest the 1001RB or the 2001RB....people occasionally complain they are too powerful for their application and thus can't afford to dial in growl without melting eardrums.

    Maybe a 800RB, Backline 600, or 400RB would do the job for you as well.
  8. Well.. my bass rig is a 1970SVT -> 1970SVT 810cab /w original 30w alnico's... paired with an Ampeg V9 -> Sunn 4x15. This will do any of those sounds.

    However... for the SMART bass player (not me) I'd recommend:

    Any Rickenbacker bass -> Some insane fuzz/overdrive pedal (Synth Mangler?) -> GK Fusion 550, Markbass Littlemark III, Anything that has a good warm analog bass tone. (I don't recommend any class D amps for this application) -> 10's, 12's, 15's... doesn't really matter so much the speaker size I'm starting to realize. I'd look for a speaker that matches your amps output- something with a ceramic magnet (no neo's) typically the older the better.

    Hell- if you found a couple of old JBL e-140's for cheap- this would be ideal- but many 70's + 80's ceramic mid powered speakers will work nicely.

    Don't expect this to be light. There's a reason why people lug an SVT rig around- they DO sound different.

    Scope this video.

    Much recommended.
  9. ...and if you're really on a budget- grab a boss blues driver and go to town.
  10. Rumblefisher


    Aug 22, 2007
    Astoria, NY
  11. praisegig

    praisegig Supporting Member

    Jul 7, 2008
    Stephenville, TX
    Using a pick will be a good start!!!!! Then round wounds, the either a 1x15 or 2x15 cabinet. The fEarful 15/6 or 1515/6 or maybe the fEaRB cabs should work.
  12. i want a v9 so bad.
  13. LoveThatBass


    Jun 28, 2004

    I love my 700 RBII!!
    Much better than the SWR or Fender I had.
  14. rptrsn2


    Feb 21, 2008
    Northeast Missouri
    Endorsing Artist: Aurora Strings
    i also use a 700rbll with a avatar 210. add 115 and its all you need. thats what i did, great lows andvery punchy set up, handles my 5er even cranked
  15. I remember asking the bass player of Breather Resist (now of Young Widows) which pedal he uses for his sound. He told me the Proco Juggernaut Bass RAT. But I use a 5 string tuned in drop-A and have a Boss bass OD pedal, more of a fuzz but I like how it sounds for now.
  16. Joe Gress

    Joe Gress

    Dec 22, 2005
    Pueblo, CO
    Thanks for all the reply's guys. The fEarful threads are prolly where I should have started, and prolly where I will find the best info. I'm thinking right now of either building two 15/6's or a 1212/6. Really leaning towards the two 15/6's in 8 ohms so that I can pair them together when needed. I played a mesa 215 run with my amp (GK 700RB-II) again at guitar center today, and that was enough to convince me of the tone in my head that I'm looking for.

    As far as effects pedals go, I have that covered. ;) My Gemini, Pickle Pie, and B:assmaster can all do the dirty very well. My only dirty toy that is missing is a rat. But drop tuning I already do as my roommates tune to cello tuning (C) so its easier to jam.

    Bill I think I plan on getting rid of my 210 as it's just not what I'm looking for. Not to knock avatar as it was a good cab for the price, but its just not quite what I want anymore. Plus being a 4ohm cab, I'll never be able to pair it with another cab with my amp. If it was 8 ohm it might be a different story.

    But my roommate and I are really looking forward to the challenge. We're college students looking for stuff to do. He has all the tools necessary at his old house, so we'll prolly be building it over a weekend or two.
  17. If your roomy wants a challange you should try to do like that Peavey 1x15/2x10 cab (i forget it's name). That would give you 4x10s and 1x15, which plenty of people sware by.
  18. Peppacone


    Jul 24, 2008
    To me the problem ain't the 10 inch speakers, it's that you have 2 of them. If you want to be gut wrenching then get a 4x10 or something similar.
  19. subopposite


    Jul 23, 2008
    Your GK should be plenty loud. Just get some more speaker area, however you want to do it. I like having 4 speakers myself. I use 4x10 with Avatar with 500 watts to it and plays good.

    With your setup and seeming to want to go larger on the cone size, I think that if you got 2x12 and another 2x12 later or a 4x12 you would be pretty happy. Getting the right ones will enable you to upgrage to that tube later on as well.

    A 700 should be good with 2x12's and work pretty good with 4x12 (175 RMS to each cone), I would think. Getting 12's with good sensitivity and an rms of 250+ a piece would be what I would do if I was going with 12's. That means my 700 would underpower the 4x12's a little, which is fine and then you can still get a tube.

    If you do get 2 speakers and you plan on adding another 2 later on, then get the right ohm load or make sure your amp head can handle whatever 2 cabinets will be configured to.

    Good luck. It's always fun deciding what to do.
  20. theavondon


    May 11, 2009
    By the looks of the bands you gave examples of, you sure you don't just want an Emperor? I mean, c'mon.

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