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so some steriod head killed jaco?very sad

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by kindablue, Dec 22, 2003.


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  1. kindablue

    kindablue

    Jun 15, 2003
    I'm just discovering this eccentric and incredibly gifted artist.just read he was killed by an dim witted $$%#32@ bouncer.i think that's a shame to say the least and also i detest the
    type with too much testosterone and too little brains.where is this pee brain now?still in jail or out?curious,anyone know?
     
  2. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    ...I think he served less than a year.
    Our justice system at work.
     
  3. LiquidMidnight

    LiquidMidnight

    Dec 25, 2000
    ...Yet Tommy Chong gets thrown in prison for selling bongs.
     
  4. Mike Money

    Mike Money Banned

    Mar 18, 2003
    Bakersfield California
    Avatar Speakers Endorsing Hooligan
    Meh. Jaco probably liked Tommy quite a bit... :p
     
  5. pyrohr

    pyrohr

    Aug 28, 2001
    Pakistani compound
    The bouncer who was a karate expert and hired to protect an establishment may have just been doin his job. we were not there and don't know how drunk Jaco may have been, but what is known is he told the bouncer "I'm Jaco" and the bouncer did not go for it. Jaco played a part in his death no matter how "gifted" we wanted to call him. Jaco choose to do drugs and drink alcohol and thus the tragic ending to his life. Jaco was said to be obnoxious to say the least at times and those of us who played bass at the time of his death did not weep, cry, jump off of roofs or try to take the gas pipe because Jaco was gone. He was a great innovative bassist with a whole bunch of demons. He became more famous after death like fellow drunk James Jamerson.
     
  6. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member Administrator

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    :eek: :D
     
  7. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Many many people mourned his early death and showed respect for his bereaved family - shame you can't do the same!!
     
  8. Uh.. Yes. Being manodepressive and having a drug problem that's out of control isn't something you should get killed for. The doorman was the sober one, right?

    Anyway, I don't know anything about the details of this tragic event, but I doubt that you do, either. It's still plain stupid to say it's OK to get killed because they were obnoxious and arrogant, in my opinion.
     
  9. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    Don't forget about Bird & Bud Powell.
    It doesn't get much more tragic than Powell; I guess he got what he deserved, too.
    :rolleyes:

    Personally, I don't believe Jaco became more famous after his death...he was pretty huge in the '70s; I'm not hearing too much "Jaco" outside of Bass mags & Bass websites. Back his day, music fans(players/non-players/non-bassists) in general rapped more about him. Perhaps more today have had a chance, after the fact, to either discover/digest his material nowadaze(?). I dunno...
     
  10. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    That's one place I wouldn't wanna hang out in...
     
  11. Howard K

    Howard K

    Feb 14, 2002
    UK
    Apollogies, I deleted my previous post cause I couldnt be arsed with the arguement I knew it would start!

    I didnt mean that he should be killed because he was obnoxious, etc. I mean that he probably "asked for" a kicking from that bouncer (not that anyone ever deserves a kick, but you know what I mean, he probably "pushed his luck")
    ...and unfortunatley for everyone involved, Jaco died later in hospital. I dont imagine the bouncer was exactly happy about it.

    If I got tanked up and started insulting large violent men who were hired to keep undesireables out of clubs I'd expect a kicking, and let's face it I'd probably deserve one for being so bloody stupid.

    Also, we have to remember that the doorman DID NOT murder Jaco. He beat him unconscious and Jaco died in hospital. That is not murder, it is manslaughter. No one can prove the bouncer intended to kill Jaco, so he is not guilty of murder - innocent until proven guilty remember.

    Jaco was a sick man - that, in itself, is tragic. He was also an intelligent man who must've known damned well that drink and drugs did not help his illness. Yet he still drank and took drugs. Where was the respect for his own life? Perhaps, just perhaps, if he'd had more respect for himself he wouldnt have died?

    I KNOW Jaco's situation was tragic and I do have sympathy for anyone with a mental illness, but I cant have sympathy for people who knowingly do the exact opposite of what they know is right.

    I have a friend in almost exactly the same situation as this right now and I have very little sympathy for him also. He knows he is ill (paranoid schitzophrenia (Sp.?)), he knows the drink and coke makes him worse, but he knowingly still does it.

    All I'm saying is this:

    Jacos death was tragic, regardless of his talent. Any early death is tragic.
    The bouncer did not murder him and it is not fair to keep saying he did.
    Jaco was sick. He knew it and obviously didnt take care of himself like he should have.
     
  12. Pöl

    Pöl

    May 31, 2003
    Belgium
    As much as I like Jaco's music, I'm with Howard K on this one.
     
  13. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    According to some of the accounts I've read, Jaco was turned away from the club, he was noticeably intoxicated and extremely high on something. He got pissed for being turned away, and went to the back door of the club and tried to break his way in, beating the hell out of the door.

    The bouncer was a karate expert, and yes, should have known when to stop the beating. But it is also important to note that when dealing with a manic depressive on dope, they can be pretty unstoppable at times. They can charge like a rhino, and not much short of a bullet can make them stop. Its entirely possible that Jaco just kept coming at the bouncer, we don't know, we weren't there. The bouncer served a VERY short time in jail, so there apparently was evidence in his favor.
     
  14. Mud Flaps

    Mud Flaps

    Feb 3, 2003
    Norton, MA
    Regardless of who killed him, or what his direct cause of death was, he had it coming.

    Manic Depression + Drugs + Alcoholism - Treatment (or at least help) = Early Death.

    The equation is always the same.
     
  15. I have to agree he was doing his job, but I think he did a bit too roughly.

    So...

    Yeah.
     
  16. kegbarnacle

    kegbarnacle

    Nov 18, 2003
    Phoenix
    I'm sure Jaco was being a complete drunken doped idiot that night. And he put himself in harm's way.

    But in my opinion that bouncer is 100% indefensible. To summarize what I've read about Jaco's death, he went to a club he'd been barred from, tried to get in, kicked the door. Then he was karate chopped multiple times in the HEAD. They found him laying face down in a pool of blood, with one eye ruptured, his skull cracked and every bone in his face shattered. He then went into a coma, had an aneurysm, brain activity flatlined and they took him off the respirator. Had he pulled through the coma (before he had the aneurysm) he would have been paralyzed on one side of his body.

    I've spent a lot of time in bars, pubs, clubs, concert halls and just about every other type of venue that serves alcohol from Los Angeles to Amsterdam. I've seen more drunken half-wits than I can remember. I've been the drunken half-wit. I've seen bouncers throw more people out of bars than I can remember. Short of Jaco waving a gun around at this bar in question, I cannot come up with any way to rationalize the bouncer's actions. Plus, Jaco looks to me like he weighed about 120 pounds. He may have been tall, but I would find it difficult to describe him as an imposing figure. It's not like it was Refrigerator Perry getting rowdy in the bar. So as for the bouncer, subdue him, kick him in the gut, get him in a sleeper hold, call the cops, spray him with mace, pin him to the ground, hand cuff him, i don't know. They must have taught him something non-leathal in those karate lessons. But karate chop him in the head????
     
  17. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    I disagree. What do you think he was doing his job?

    I read the same thing in Bill Milkowski's book about Jaco. The bouncer killed him. Period end of story.

    Is there anything a person can do to you to justify crushing their skull and rupturing their eye? Thats what I thought. Yeah the guy just didnt know when to quit... didnt know his own strength. All signs point to the guy bouncing his head off the concrete. Unstoppable manic depressive on dope? Puh-lease. A kick in the stomach would have taken him out possibly for the entire night. A "karate expert" knows how to take a person down with one hit. Thats the point... to avoid conflict. Spare all the crap about him being manic depressive and on dope and difficult to deal with. This guy killed Jaco.

    :mad: :(
     
  18. Pause

    Pause

    Jun 4, 2003
    Miami, FL
    Thank you. This is what all martial arts schools teach - only to defend yourself. The way I understand it from this thread, this bouncer either completely lost his mind in the scuffle or just really wanted to see if he could actually kill someone.

    He may have been an advanced karate student, but if he didn't know when to stop the attacks, he was nowhere near an "expert."
     
  19. Matthew Bryson

    Matthew Bryson Guest

    Jul 30, 2001
    Yes. If somebody starts a fight with me - If they hit me or come at me, then I will proceed to pummel them until they stop coming at me. If they keep coming at me (like a coked up and drunk person with a mental disorder might) ...then I might have to knock them down, possibly unconscious, before they stop coming at me. If the person who keeps coming at me, begging to be hit again, happens to turn their head just so causing a punch to land just so as to puncture their eyeball, that'd be on them - not me.

    This bouncer did not go find Jaco and pick a fight with him. It sounds to me like Jaco was asking for it. I agree with Howard K's comments.

    BTW - Re: the thread title - where did you read or hear that the bouncer was on steroids? That sounds to me like an unfounded accusation based on the fact that you seem to believe he should be blamed for Jaco's death.

    The part I find most interesting is that so many Jaco fans seem to think they know more about what happened that night twenty plus years ago than the jury that heard the case. Go ahead and have your idols - but try to remember: They are just people, they came from a sperm and an egg and they sleep at night, they make #2 and it does stink when they do. Don't assume that your idols can do no wrong.
     
  20. metron

    metron Fluffy does not agree

    Sep 12, 2003
    Lakewood Colorado
    :rolleyes: ridiculous
     



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