Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by bass555, May 10, 2005.

  1. bass555


    Mar 16, 2005
    the flatted 5th, Sharp 4th, the devil's interval, the "jazz 5th", etc etc...

    whaddya think?
  2. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002
    Tritones have a lot of really neat theoretical applications, and their place in modern theory can be pretty interesting. But, I find that often times people use tritones and it sounds like they are using them to create dissonance for dissonance's sake, while that mightn't be the case for many acts, I do hear tritones often and think "was that really necessary?"
  3. SteveC


    Nov 12, 2004
    North Dakota
    Works great for chord substitutions in jazz.
  4. burntgorilla


    Jan 24, 2005
    I know of the first two, but I've never heard of the other two. Have they anything to do with submediants and dominants, or am I way off beam?
  5. akuma12


    Aug 25, 2003
    Sarasota, FL
    Great for creating tension in music too. It's one of those intervals that feels like it needs to be finished. Especially when you keep thinking of the Simpson's theme because your ear training instructor drilled it into your head ;)
  6. WillBuckingham


    Mar 30, 2005
    Burntgorilla, "flatted 5th, Sharp 4th, the devil's interval, the "jazz 5th"" all refer to the same interval: seven half steps.
  7. a lot of good metal riffs can derive from tritones
  8. Marcus Willett

    Marcus Willett Supporting Member

    Feb 8, 2005
    Palm Bay, FL
    Endorsing Artist: Bag End - Dean Markley - Thunderfunk

    Bass players are notorious for using the tri-tone sub just because. (FYI to anyone who might wonder...tri-tone stands for 3 tones, another word for a step, as in three whole steps from the first note). Or putting in the famous Jaco upper register tri-tone lick. Cool, but it's been done to death.
  9. FractalUniverse

    FractalUniverse Guest

    Jan 26, 2002
    Valparaíso, Chile
    if you played a tritone in medieval times they would cut your head off... "diabolus in musica" or something like that
  10. pklima


    May 2, 2003
    Kraków, Polska
    That had probably had more to do with tritones being difficult to sing in tune - especially when you have a choir of monks and some of them are lousy singers. A lot of traditional folk styles avoid tritones in the melody to this day.

    Death and black metal melodies, on the other hand, will often avoid ascending intervals other than the tritone, minor third and minor or major second.
  11. PlayTheBass

    PlayTheBass aka Mac Daddy

    Dec 7, 2004
    Carmichael, CA
    I think tritones are kinda like the letters 'K' and 'Q' -- they work great in some sentences, but not so well in others. I'm glad they're in the alphabet because sometimes nothing else will do! But... it all depends on the context. You can't force it, for sure.
  12. Cool color notes to add, if you don't overdo it.

    Take a D7 (dom), the F#(3rd or 10th) and the C (7th) are a tritone apart. Hit them both at the same time up high, adds some neat tension.

    Interestingly enough, the same notes (F# and C) roles are reversed for the A flat dom 7 (C becomes 3rd, Gflat becomes 7th), so it works equally well for both chords. Always thought that was cool.

  13. ajb2804


    Apr 30, 2005
    First of all,I enjoy using tri-tone intervals in my solos to create tension and release.For burntgorilla,an explanation of the tri-tone substitution is in order.In jazz,when a dominant 7th chord is called out ,you can substitute a dominant 7th chord a tri-tone away.Ex. C7 to Fsharp 7.This works because the 3rd and 7th in C7,(the E and Bflat),are also present in the F sharp 7(B flat being the 3rd and E being the 7th).I hope this helps your creativity and enjoyment of the gift of music!
  14. Aaron Saunders

    Aaron Saunders

    Apr 27, 2002
    Personally, I think the "jazz fifth" (and other names, what-have-you) sounds far better as a raised eleventh/flattened 12th as a chord tension, rather 1st octave chord tone.

    Example -- go to the nearest keyboard, and hit a regular ol' Fsus2 chord with the 1st, 2nd, and 5th (starting on the F two octaves below middle C.) Then, on top, toss the B right below middle C. Sounds kinda neat, doesn't it? :D
  15. burntgorilla


    Jan 24, 2005
    Thanks for the explanations. However, taking the C7 example, why is it F#7? From what I can see, F from C is a tritone, so I must have misunderstood something somewhere. By this, if A7 was called, could you substitute in a D#7?

    Oh wait, I see. It's a sharpened fourth interval, which would give the sharp.
  16. Pacman

    Pacman Layin' Down Time Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 1, 2000
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
    Moved to General Instruction. Where lots of people would do well reading some other threads about tritone subsitution, chord tones, extensions, etc, etc....
  17. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    But we don't live then - we live now!! So it's just a part of musical theory that has been explored for many centuries.

    They'd cut your head off for stealing a lof of bread then - thank goodness we live in more enlightened times!! :)

    We don't get hanged for suggesting that the Earth is not the centre of the universe either!! ;)
  18. quallabone


    Aug 2, 2003
    Tritones are just another interval. No more important than a P5 or a P8. If we didn't have tritones we wouldn't have dominant chords which would make modulations quite a bit less believable. No 1/2 diminished chords either. The applications are endless. They're just another tool that every musician should have.
  19. Jazzin'

    Jazzin' ...Bluesin' and Funkin'

    When I improvise in the dorian scale, I enjoy "overdoing" the the use of the 6th and the 3rd or the 3rd and the 6th consecutively (tritone). I love the sound of them together. I dig it!