Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
Welcome to TalkBass! Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
soapbar vs humbucker
- Thread starter kreed
- Start date
knuckle_head
Commercial User
- Jul 30, 2002
- 2,621
- 57
- Disclosures
- Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
A soapbar can be either single coil or humbucking - it is more in the way a pickup is constructed.
Soapbars customarily have a winding with a large circumference around a series of pole pieces that have a magnet beneath them. It can be made humbucking by having two similarly shaped/sized coils with opposing polarity/wind direction.
Warwick has a dual Jazz that is essentially a humbucker with a pair of single coil Jazz pups immediately adjacent to one another.
IME a soapbar splits the difference between single coil and humbucker - if the soapbar humbucks it changes the flavor somewhat.
Soapbars customarily have a winding with a large circumference around a series of pole pieces that have a magnet beneath them. It can be made humbucking by having two similarly shaped/sized coils with opposing polarity/wind direction.
Warwick has a dual Jazz that is essentially a humbucker with a pair of single coil Jazz pups immediately adjacent to one another.
IME a soapbar splits the difference between single coil and humbucker - if the soapbar humbucks it changes the flavor somewhat.
knuckle_head
Commercial User
- Jul 30, 2002
- 2,621
- 57
- Disclosures
- Owner; Knuckle Guitar Works & Circle K Strings
Soapbars are SHAPES OF THE HOUSINGS, people!
The idea of a soapbar pickup is just a square block of plastic housing the pickup itself! There's no tonal difference between a soapbar P-style pickup, and an old-school two-block external-screw-holes P-style pickup. It's all cosmetic. It's just more appealing to some people, to have a square plastic block, instead of those specially routed holes with half-circles cut outward for the screw mounts.
Me, personally, I like soapbars cuz they're easier to swap pickups. They're all pretty much standardized sizes now, cuz everyone wants to be interchangable.
The idea of a soapbar pickup is just a square block of plastic housing the pickup itself! There's no tonal difference between a soapbar P-style pickup, and an old-school two-block external-screw-holes P-style pickup. It's all cosmetic. It's just more appealing to some people, to have a square plastic block, instead of those specially routed holes with half-circles cut outward for the screw mounts.
Me, personally, I like soapbars cuz they're easier to swap pickups. They're all pretty much standardized sizes now, cuz everyone wants to be interchangable.
While almost everything you said was right...
...this comment may have opened the gates of hell for you.
I get what you meant, though, so I won't be the one massacring you.
Getting back to the OP... yeah, EMG is a good example of a company that uses soapbar housings for pickups that normally use traditional housings. It allows you to have a 100% Jazz pickup fit into a cavity cut for a soapbar, without having to fill anything in. Same goes for the EMG P soapbars.
I'm really glad EMG does this, because I'm fond of the EMG P sound, and having a soapbar-housed version allowed me to put it into my Schecter Stiletto (a two-soapbar bass). The regular version sounds the same because both versions are electrically (and electronically) identical, and it fits into a traditional precision pickup cavity.
...this comment may have opened the gates of hell for you.
I get what you meant, though, so I won't be the one massacring you.
Getting back to the OP... yeah, EMG is a good example of a company that uses soapbar housings for pickups that normally use traditional housings. It allows you to have a 100% Jazz pickup fit into a cavity cut for a soapbar, without having to fill anything in. Same goes for the EMG P soapbars.
I'm really glad EMG does this, because I'm fond of the EMG P sound, and having a soapbar-housed version allowed me to put it into my Schecter Stiletto (a two-soapbar bass). The regular version sounds the same because both versions are electrically (and electronically) identical, and it fits into a traditional precision pickup cavity.
So, if there is no real difference, what is the advantages/disadvantages of smaller soapbars (emg/spector style) and exposed-pole MM style pickups
Ah, so the gates are open.
There IS a real difference, but you need to understand the following:
- Visible poles are an aesthetic thing - it's irrelevant to the sound. There ARE exposed-pole EMG/Spector style soapbars, and there are MM style pickups with no exposed poles.
- Shape is irrelevant, but NOT because they'll all sound the same - it's because it doesn't tell you what the pickup will really sound like.
- The position of the pickup on a bass is important to how it will sound. Any MM pickup, placed in the "sweet spot", will sound different than the same MM pickup placed close to the neck.
And then, the punchline...
Different pickups sound different, even if they're the exact same shape. But it's not the shape or the housing - it's the design of the pickup itself and the circumstances it's placed in. The way it's wound, materials used, active/passive preamps that color the pickup's natural tone, its position on the bass, the other pickup(s) (if it's a two/three pickup bass), etc....
Now that I have the "sound" issue out of the way... there are a few real advantages/disadvantages of just the shape alone.
Off the top of my head... MM pickups are huge, and as such, having two of them on your bass (like on HH Stingrays) can really get in the way of slapping and popping. So can smaller humbuckers, but you usually have a bit more space to work with. And regarding exposed poles (like what you see on most, but NOT all MM-style pickups), they might develop a little rust over time. But you can clean that off.
to be fair, emg's and some others use blade type fins, note pole magnets, which I would imagine in theory capture more sound because the string is always directly over the magnet not moving across it like traditional exposed pole p's and j's, and I would think the MM for having bigger poles would be different too, it's all based on magnetic fields, the frequencies and blah blah blah, which is why raising the pickup closer to the strings increases volume and IMO a little more tone, not different just heavier
Though its probably an over generalization. I think of soapbar/humbucker pups as most akin to guitar humbuckers and J pups as most akin to guitar single coils. With P pups closer to humbucker yet with something of their own voice char. Between big pole humbuckers and most soapbar pups, the former seem to have more treble content and bite then most soapbar pups. They also seem to have a little more air to their sound. While these big pole humbucker bass pups can sound excellent, I find I seldom if ever boost the treble on the onboard preamps with them. Often cutting it a little. Unlike reg soapbar bass pups where I'll ussually leave treble flat or slightly boosted.
I just tested soapbar pickup only to discover that its a single coil ie. having 2 coils but one of the coils contains magnets while the other does not. I had always thought its a full humbucker only to discover that the other coil is a dummy coil which helps in bucking the hum and still retain the single coil sound (which am not really sure of). So what should we call this. Its passive and the output level is low even when both pickup are at full volume compared to my former precision bass. I need help on how to boost the signal and also need a clarification on my dummy humbucking single coil pickups in terms of the sound quality and wirings. Its also a 4 conductor pickup.
Dummy coils are used frequently to cancel single-coil pickup hum. Dummy coils are a standard feature in many MusicMan basses as well as other basses.
Without knowing anything else about the pickup, I would generally say that a dummy coil improves sound quality because it cuts back on hum. Anything more than that isn't a "sound quality" issue - it becomes an issue of tone, and that's entirely subjective.
As for boosting the signal... the same rules apply as with any other pickup. The easiest ways to boost output are to raise the problem pickup, lower the high-output pickup, and/or adjust string height.
Is the problem pickup a bridge pickup? Those usually have somewhat less output than a neck pickup, IME. But when you play towards the neck, it's less of an issue.
Without knowing anything else about the pickup, I would generally say that a dummy coil improves sound quality because it cuts back on hum. Anything more than that isn't a "sound quality" issue - it becomes an issue of tone, and that's entirely subjective.
As for boosting the signal... the same rules apply as with any other pickup. The easiest ways to boost output are to raise the problem pickup, lower the high-output pickup, and/or adjust string height.
Is the problem pickup a bridge pickup? Those usually have somewhat less output than a neck pickup, IME. But when you play towards the neck, it's less of an issue.
I thought soap bars give a huge bottom end, that's from looking at http://www.bcrich.com/bass_zombie_exotic.asp . Almost everyone that brings out a bass with soap bars also have all the other pick ups in their line, must be for more than just looks.
I've used a lot of cheaper Jazz basses in the past and I have to say that the soapbars in my Peavey Cirrus is a lot like the jazz bass pickups. I think it's the placement and the jump from a cheap bass to a nicer bass. I know emg make soapbar shape jazz bass pickups, my pickups are VFL
Similar threads
