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some rec suggestions

Discussion in 'Recording Gear and Equipment [BG]' started by marcopalla, Apr 14, 2009.


  1. marcopalla

    marcopalla

    Aug 31, 2005
    Hi everyone!
    my new band is starting to record our first autoproduced demo (no studio, no producers, no engineers).
    We'll record on a Yamaha aw1600, 8 tracks simoultaneously, in the rehearsal box.

    1) we think to record all together 'cose every instrument in separated session is probably a too long process. Is such a bad idea?Any trick about that? better if we monitor at a very low volume? Is better to use the metronome function of yamaha to the PA?

    we have
    3 mic drums
    1 bass
    1 guitar
    1 guitar
    1 KB
    1 backing vocal

    2) I think to go to my Boss ME50B, only light compression, then one signal to ampli and one to board (the Hi-z input)

    3) When we'll finish to record I think to import everything on cubase, edit track per track and and mastering the final CD. I have some WaveLab editing experience....
    any trick? is a good idea duplicate voice and KB tracks and pan a little L-R??
    to eliminate drums on other mics I have to use a noise gate filter??

    every suggestion is welcome!!
    you are always my best consultants ;-)

    I've some studio experience, but sessions like "where's the cable? where are headphones? ok play! (alone)"

    thanx and sorry for my bad english...
    m.
     
  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    You're not going to eliminate bleed, and I wouldn't try to gate it to do it.

    If you're doing rough and ready recording, I'd keep everyone's levels as reasonably low as possible, I'd semi-isolate the amps (turn them away from drum mics, etc). I'd keep the bass as low as humanly possible, as thats what will give the most bleed.

    In a decent sounding room, you can get a pretty good sounding recording. We do it all the time for our own review, and the recordings are pretty close to studio quality.

    Skip the click...unless you've got really bad time. It will sound awful in the end product...unless you're all using headphones and you can feed it through that way. It will also kill your performance feel if you're not very accustomed to playing with it. You're trying to get a 'live' representation of the band, and the click does just the reverse.
     
  3. chjohnst

    chjohnst

    Nov 24, 2008
    I have read that its good to gate the kickdrum and snare mics if possible to prevent and bleed over of other low and mid frequencies. I have found that using digital noise gates I tend to get a very synthetic sound. I don't particular like it that much.
     
  4. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY

    You can definitely hear gating, unless it's a really nice gate. I'd rather deal with minimal bleed on a track than an unnatural sounding drum recording that doesn't sound like the original.
     
  5. chjohnst

    chjohnst

    Nov 24, 2008
    For my kickdrum I cut a hole on the outer skin and I stuff the kick mic into the head. It seems to prevent a lot of the other noises going on since the mic is IN the hole.

    I am fighting an issue now with my recordings where the bass is just REALLY boomy when we do the final mix down. I need to learn how to EQ things a little better, but my drum overheads seem to pick up a lot of the frequencies coming from the bass.

    This weekend I want to try and move the amps around so they are not facing right at the drummer.
     
  6. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Without isolation (hint: you might be able to help by making your own isolation screens with some big cardboard boxes cut up), definitely get those amps pointed away from the drum mics. It will help.

    How many mics are you using on the drums? Lately I've been recording the kick from the back-side...yup not in the drum but mic to head on the beater side. Something that I took from an engineer friend of mine and seems to be working...as many drummers don't really tune their drums to record.
     
  7. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Like he said, try to isolate the drums. Even put them in another room if you can. If not, at LEAST build some screens. Fro recording, you can use just about anything (cardboard, plywood, even furniture). Plus you could isolate the guitars as well. You can stuff a pillow in front of them (with the mic inside of course) but that will only work if you have a mic with a small field (SM57 or something like that). Good luck!
     
  8. chjohnst

    chjohnst

    Nov 24, 2008
    We are using 6 mics on the drums.

    - kickdrum
    - snare
    - floor tom
    - center tom
    - l overhead
    - r overhead

    Bass is a DI (straight from my GK-B600 head) and MIC (sm57) combo, guitar is just a single MIC (sm57).

    Since all of the recording is being done in the basement there is a lot of reflection happening with the concrete walls. But we caddy cornered the drums, I have found the drums to get a very live sound in a concrete corner if we record them separately. As soon as we bring the bass or guitar into the picture things get a a little out of hand. We were thinking about building a baffle around the drums using some leftover 2x4 and plywood that I have lying around from some home projects. I think this would allow the lower mics to not get and bleed over and isolate them. Would this help?

    Right now the bass and guitar are on the other side of the room pointing right at the drums. It doesn't seem like an ideal setup that way. I am going to move the bass amp so its pointing away from the drums to the side and the same with the guitar on the other side.

    Below is a simulated diagram of how I can set things up with the drums stuffed into the corner and bass and guitar amps on the side pointing away from the walls. The arrows are pointing in the direction in which the sound is traveling.

    Current Setup:

    ------------
    | D <- B
    |
    | <- G
    |

    Planned Setup:

    ------------
    | D B
    | \|/
    |
    | G ->
     
  9. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD Supporting Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    I see in the other thread, that you say that you don't really have much experience in recording (I assume that also means mixing and production)...

    ...To me it sounds like you're running an awful lot of mics (six on the drums alone) and lines for a basement/demo set up. The more stuff you're running, the more complex it is to fit it all together. While it sometimes seems like a great thing to use as many mics as possible, you're really making a headache for yourself and also possibly making your recording sound worse due to the room, the isolation, etc. (more mics,more bleed, more bounce, more wash in a concrete room). Often times it's well worth doing a stripped down recording just as a sort of sketch (like and artist does before a painting), then you can either go whole hog or make adjustments...and you won't want to kill yourself when the 3434 track recording you've put all your time and effort into goes south in a great ball of flaming dookie.

    Its easy to think "I've got some great new gear and software, I'ma gonna do a HUGE recording project"...I know I've done it before.

    I'd start by:

    -Setting up so your amps are pointed away from the drum mics, If you can still have your tone and turn down, do it as low as possible. If you can throw up some DIY isolation and reflection soaking...do. I use cardboard box origami and old blankets, quilts, etc. to cut as much reflection as possible. Have the guys in the band bring some to help.

    -Start with maybe 3 mics on the drums. Kick, something up near the toms and one for hi-hat and snare. Get used to what you can do by moving those around and getting different feels from them.Or maybe you'll want to try a few different mics (like changing a 57 to a 58, etc).

    -If you've got the tracks, yes, do two for the bass, but you may find you only want to use one of those or you can work on blending them.

    -The guitar...well, I always find that this can be deceptively tricky for what should be an easy job. Guitar voicing can get ugly with small adjustments of mic position, different mics, etc. You may want to try recordings from different axis and places. Also, sometimes what hits tape is really different from what you're hearing (I get our guitarist to pull way back on the reverb and tweak his tone for recording)...it really hits tape differently.


    -Compress to tape. It took me YEARS to learn this lesson. YEARS. And while everyone said it to me over and over in the past twenty years, it's only been in the last year that I finally got the message. Even just running it on the drum channels makes a HUUUUUUGE difference in the end product. When I recently took this to heart and only compressed kick and snare to tape I didn't mention a word to the band (it was just a practice recording, I do it about once a week), but each and every member came to me later and asked why the recording sounded so much better and why it sounded so much like a 'real' recording.

    Get an 5 or 8 track recording to sound good. Then get it mixed well. THEN record with your full kit of gear.

    Or of course, do whatever you'd like. :)
     

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