# Someone please answer this pentationic question!

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by Trist6075, Jul 31, 2002.

1. ### Trist6075Guest

Mar 6, 2001
Could somebody please give me the notes in a E minor pentatonic scale. I read that that the scale consists of a first, flatted 3rd, 4th, 5th, and flatted seventh. But me teacher gave it to me as E,G,A,B,D. Wouldn't it be E,Gb,A,B,Db? I am confused. Can somebody provide me with an answer?

2. ### Phil SmithMr Sumisu 2 U

May 30, 2000
Peoples Republic of Brooklyn
Creator of: iGigBook for Android/iOS
E G A B D, IS root, flatted 3rd, 4th, 5th and flatted 7th.

3. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Correct (the quote above).

E, Gb, A, B, Db would be Root, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th.

4. ### PacmanLayin' Down TimeStaff MemberGold Supporting Member

Apr 1, 2000
Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
no, that would be Root, double flat 3rd, 4th, 5th, and double flat 7th (2nd would be F# and 6th would be C#)

remember, when spelling chords or scales, enharmonics make a difference.

5. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Agreed, but he's already confused. Baby steps first (i.e. the simplest, easier to understand explanation). You shouldn't start someone who's just learning how to read with War & Peace or someone just learning how to count with Algebra.

6. ### cassanova

Sep 4, 2000
Florida
just to make sure im on the right page here, a double flat 3rd is 2 half steps down from the 3rd right? So if we're in E, a double flat 3rd would be F# no?

7. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Pacman is (correctly) refering to proper "enharmonic" naming of the notes in relationship to the key.

In the key of E the 3rd should be technically refered to as a G# (not Ab). So if you were then to double flat that 3rd (G#) it should correctly/enharmonically be refered to as a Gb and not F# (same note) because enharmonically F# is the 2nd in the key of E.

It boils down to proper labeling/naming of notes in relationship to keys to keep all the accidentals nice and tidy.

8. ### PacmanLayin' Down TimeStaff MemberGold Supporting Member

Apr 1, 2000
Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Precisely, Phat.

9. ### JimK

Dec 12, 1999
...and that IS "the simplest, easiest explanation".

Baby steps, true...but let's set him on the 'technically' correct path, too.

10. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Yes...but everything in due time.

11. ### cassanova

Sep 4, 2000
Florida
ah ok...i think i get ya...since its a double flat it would have to be Gb not F# cos we're talking about flats.

12. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Well..yes and no. Its enharmonically refered to as Gb because its technically the third degree of the scale being altered. Where as F# is enharmonically refering to the second degree of the scale even though these two notes are the same pitch.

13. ### metallicarulesGuest

This would be the correct assumption if you were playing in C because C major has no sharps or flats. Because C major goes C D E F G A B, a flatted 3rd would be Eb, a flatted seventh would be Bb. E major however goes (correct me if I'm wrong) E F# G# A B C# D#, so for the minor pentatonic scale you take the root E, a flatted third so G# becomes G, a 4th A, a 5th B, and a flatted 7th where D# becomes D and there you have it E G A B D. I hope that made sense.

Do a search for the "circle of fifths" to learn which sharps and flats all the scales have.

14. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Y'know, in all the enharmonic "hubbub" we forgot to answer the original question. Nice catch (and the correct answer).

15. ### PacmanLayin' Down TimeStaff MemberGold Supporting Member

Apr 1, 2000
Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Phil answered it in the 2nd post.

16. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Don't you EVER sleep?

17. ### metallicarulesGuest

He answered it, I just thought I'd explain it.

18. ### PacmanLayin' Down TimeStaff MemberGold Supporting Member

Apr 1, 2000
Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification

Sleep is for guitar players.

Besides, I've got a 4 1/2 year old, so sleep really isn't an option.

19. ### PhatBasstardSpector DissectorSupporting Member

Feb 3, 2002
Las Vegas, NV.
Alright! Synchronicity! Thats my 4 1/2 year old in my avatar (not the speaker cab......although I HAVE considered that on occasion. ).

20. ### Matthew BrysonGuest

Jul 30, 2001
I've got a question kind of along the lines of this discussion. - I'm trying to learn about intervals. After reading Jazzbo's intro to scale & chord theory article, As an exercise on 3rds I asked myself 'what is the major third of C#' At first I thought F, then I thought well, shouldn't it be some sort of E? - so E#, no doesn't exist...hmmm...maybe the question should have been what is the major third of Db'
Am I even making sense? Am I to far off topic for this thread? What is the major 3rd of C#.