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Speaker experts! Hiwatt SE320 4x12...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Rickenbackerman, Sep 29, 2003.


  1. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    I'm kicking around the idea of building one of these since less than 100 were built, and the look and design seems way cool. It's an SVT 610 sized 4x12 with two drivers on the top, a wedge-shaped port/horn in the middle, and two more 12's on the bottom.

    I'm talking with a guy in the UK who owns two of them and is being gracious enough to give me dimensions. As I understand it, special Fane speakers were used in this cab.

    I'm attaching a side-view drawing of it. Is this a folded-horn or more like a conventional ported cab? Any recommendations on speakers? Initial thoughts?
     
  2. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    Anyone? I'm curious what the speaker guys think. Bgavin?
     
  3. BruceWane

    BruceWane

    Oct 31, 2002
    Houston, TX
    That's much more like a conventional ported cab than a folded horn. The size of the "horn" formed by the flared vent is far too small to offer any boost to anything much below 150hz, so you might get quite a bump in the mids out of it. Depending on the speaker used, this may be a good or a bad thing. Considering the general size of the cabinet versus the size and length of the vent, it's going to be tuned a bit high, so be careful if you're playing a 5 string or tuning down a lot. You'll probably be going below the tuning frequency of the cabinet, which means the speakers will move A LOT, making it easy to damage them even at fairly low wattage.

    Bass horns have to be very large. To be effective down to 50hz, you're looking at about 8 or 9 feet in length - down to 30hz, around 12 feet.....

    But if you have a chance to try it out before you build it, by all means give it a run. Horns are very, very complicated things, and it's hard to say what the interaction between the front loaded speaker cone and the flared vent will sound like. I've got an old Sunn 2x15 cab (EVM 15b loaded) that uses a large flared vent somewhat like this cab, and it sounds pretty darn good. Not real deep, not hi-fi, but good tone definition and extremely LOUD.
     
  4. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Back in the mid-late '70s, I borrowed a 2x15 cabinet from my bass teacher that was configured much like this. Like BruceWane's, the cabinet was loaded with EVs (albeit SROs) it was an excellent sounding cabinet.

    I'd say give it a try!!!!

    As for speakers, take a look at Eminence Delta 12LFs

    Please keep us informed on your progress/results, etc.
     
  5. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    Thanks for the input guys. I'm *definitely* not looking for full range or hi-fi. I'm a Rick/SVT about to explode tone kind of guy. :D

    If the cab ends up being real midrangey, that would be fine by me. I'm only worried about the whole speaker excursion thing, since I use tube amps which have less damping than SS. I guess I just need to tune it correctly, but that's going to be tough with such little cab volume.

    I thought about those Delta 12LF's, but they need about three times the cab volume...
     
  6. Ditto.

    :D

    A flared port is still just a port. It is worthwhile finding the tuning frequency using a DVOM, then you can intelligently decide to use it with a 4 or 5 string bass.

    Bass horns require the mouth perimeter and air column length be 1 wave length to reach full efficiency. This is 36 feet for a 31 Hz note.

    Consider a pair of 1x15 instead. They are easier to move around without assistance, and can be correctly sized for whatever driver you choose. A 2x15 requires double the internal volume, because two drivers are in the cab. 15" drivers require a lot more volume than the smaller drivers, so the cab size increases accordingly.
     
  7. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    I really never liked 15's though... I've got a Mesa 2x15 which sounds pretty good, but the EV 15L's are WAY too bright. The bottom is also a bit floppy for me, too.

    I was mainly interested in this cab because a) it looks so damn cool, b) I've wanted to try 12's for a while, and c) it looks damn cool.

    I'll try playing around with WinISD to see if I can get it tuned low enough. WinISD Pro has a speaker excursion plot too, which will help me out a lot.

    Rob
     
  8. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    How much cabinet volume does each driver get? The LFs are designed to be used in smaller enclosures.
     
  9. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    I don't have the exact dimensions yet, but I'm guessing around 2.5 cubic feet per driver. Per WinISD, optimum for the Delta12lf is about 7.7.
     
  10. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
    d) it's a hiwatt. :bassist:
     
  11. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    2.5 cu. ft. each should be plenty... I designed some 1x12s for the Delta 12LF at just over 2 cu. ft, tuned to 42 Hz or so...the graph looked pretty enough, but I haven't built them yet to hear how they sound. A certain someone around here will scoff at any design that doesn't look good down to darn near DC on paper, even though the particular cabinet sounds quite good in real life and is revered for its low end prowess.

    Go to Eminence.com and look at the TS parameters for the Delta 12LF. Quite often Eminence calls out a range of recommended box volumes.
     
  12. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    The eminence site says 3 to 5 ft^3 per driver. I wonder why WinISD shows 7 will give the smoothest curve?

    Yeah, I don't really care about low end rolloff. However, I am worried about cone excursion since I tune down. I creased all four speakers in one of my Eden 410XLTs cabs because they're tuned too high. For that reason, I do need to tune it to 30Hz or so to keep the cones from launching across the room. I've been playing with WinISD and the curves look pretty good.

    I think I'm gonna build it this winter.
     
  13. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I believe that WinISD assumes that you want a particular alignment (4th order Butterworth or similar) to have optimally flat response as low as you possibly can.

    There are many other filter alignments possible that would require different volume and tuning with respect to Vas and Fs.

    Sounds like a great project...please keep us updated!

    :bassist: :bassist: :bassist:
     
  14. the ultimate-rocking 4x12! Hylight Electronics will be building some more now. BTW the originals were equipped with ATC speakers.
     
  15. The 0x

    The 0x

    Aug 24, 2003
    Timonium, MD
  16. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    Well, here's a bump - this story has come full-circle.

    I just made an 8-hour round trip to snag one of these yesterday. Well, almost. It's an LB412, which I think is exactly the same as the SE320, except that the rear panel is not removable.

    Haven't even played through it yet, but I plan on doing some testing to find out the tuning frequency and I'll try and get some pics soon.
     
  17. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    Catalog page...
     
  18. chadds

    chadds

    Mar 18, 2000
    Rickerman that was 3 years ago! "I'm just sayin' " :)
     
  19. Rickenbackerman

    Rickenbackerman

    Apr 17, 2001
    Laurel MD
    I hear ya! Man, I'm gettin' old...
     
  20. koobie

    koobie

    Jul 11, 2007
    Portland OR
    That's a cool looking cab, especially with the matching Hiwatt head on top. Is yours in clean condition? Does it have the original speakers?