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Speaker rattle?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jondog, Nov 24, 2004.


  1. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    I just bought a used pair of 15" PV Black Widows. Got them home, tested them, one sounds fine, the other seems to have a rattle in it. This is testing in free air so it's not the cab rattling. Are there any simple things I should check before I contact the seller and ask for my money back? I tested w/ a drum machine crossed over at 125 hz so all I'm hearing is kick drum - the good one goes thump, the bad one goes thrattlump. Almost like if a drummer plays kick alone but leaves the snares engaged on the snare drum so they vibrate in sympathy. These do have different cones - the good one has a blacker cone, the bad one has an older lighter looking cone. I asked the seller if they were recones and he said he didn't know because he bought them that way.
     
  2. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Damaged. Return it, unless you want to pay to have it reconed.
     
  3. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    pull the magnet off and check for grit inside the aluminium dome .I had a similar problem and thats what caused it , it was easy to fix
     
  4. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    Ok, that sounds like it's worth a try. How do I get the grit out? Vacuum cleaner?
     
  5. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    Once U have removed the magnet(Driver) the grit is easy to remove as U will see (you can get your hand in there) but a vac will do it
     
  6. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    Will it play low, just with a rattle? Or does it sound thin? If it's thin, the cone's shot. And you don't recone a BW, you simply replace the basket. Three bolts on the back of the magnet. As for removing debris, Peavey suggests using the corner of a piece of paper and running it through the gap in the magnet, where the coil sits.
     
  7. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    The grit I found was rattling in around the aluminium dome not in the coil slot
     
  8. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    I took off the magnet and found grit in the coil slot. I got it out, but there is still a rub. Anything else I should look for in there? It doesn't sound thin, it can get pretty loud, it just has that rattle along with the real tone. I'm pretty bummed, the seller says he tested them and they were fine. I'm hoping he's a reasonable guy . . .
     
  9. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    was there any rub marks or slight burn marks on the speaker coil if there is rub marks the speaker is moving to one side as it moves forward and that will cause noise
     
  10. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    Yes, there were some rub marks on the coil. Is there anything I can do?
     
  11. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    not a lot u can do if the spreaker is not moving forward in a straight ahead motion,and if the coils rub on the magnet it wil make a bad sound. the voice coil must have clearence all the way around and must not wobble when the cone moves forward , and as you can see there is not a lot of clearance in the slot for error.
     
  12. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    IME, when you can see the marks on the coil, the Widow is dead. Nothing you can do, because it is obviously rubbing. Bummer. Maybe they were damaged in transit. I've seen more dead BW's because of improper handling than over/underpowering.
     
  13. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    if you have a speaker repair close to where you live, I'd take it in to them just for testing. They may not be able to tell exactly what it is without opeing it up, but from what I can recall, they can tell you if the speaker is bad. Just takes a second and my guy has never charged anything for it.

    This not only lends confirmation to an issue with the speaker but when you tell the seller you've had it tested by a pro, they are much more likely to take that opinion - assuming they didn't already know to begin with.

    I've bought about 20 speakers off ebay and 33% were not in good working conditon as advertised. If you paid through paypal using 100% credit card you can just refuse payment. If it's up to the seller's good nature - good luck since he probably new it was bad to begin with. If the box's looked good, something could have happened in shipping but highly unlikely. You'll be out return shipping regardless of the situation - unless you can get the seller to agree to refun it as well, which actually happened to me with a pair of JBL K-145s.

    Speakers are the only problem area I've run into off ebay and ebay and paypal protection plans aren't worth doodly squat.
     
  14. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    Oh yeh, if you haven't already, DO NOT tell the seller you took anything apart. Personally, I take it or I leave it as I recieve it and I wouldn't take anything back I knew somebody had jacked with cause I wouldn't misrepresent anything from the start. They don't have to take anything apart to test it.
     
  15. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    I picked them up in person, so I know nothing was damaged in transit. Maybe moving them jostled some of the debris inside into the gap - there a not a lot of marks on the coil, just a few that are maybe from my testing? He lives 40 minutes away - my ideal would be to mail him the speaker back and he mails me a refund. We'll see . . .
     
  16. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    The seller has informed me that he will not refund any $ :( My new rule is to test out gear with the seller instead of taking his word for it. That should've been my old rule but he seemed like an honest guy and I didn't feel like lugging my amp out there.

    Anyway, I read somewhere that you can take a 15" BW magnet and put an 18" BW basket on it. Does anybody know if this is true? Assuming my magnet is still good, this might not be a total loss if I can turn it into a 4 ohm 18" driver.

    Also, I know I should leave well enough alone, but is it worth it to take the good one apart and try swapping cones w/ the bad one to confirm that it's the cone and not the magnet that is bad? Can magnets even go bad? I'm a little afraid of bunging up the good cone if I try this test.
     
  17. Tez

    Tez

    Jan 24, 2004
    Australia
    dont know if you can put on an 18 inch . if it fits it fits . as far as the driver failing that only happens if you drop and smash it , it is just a large magnet.( or do what I did and put it on my workshop floor and it attracted all the metal filings into the coil groove ) the magnet is so strong i could not get the filings out even with High pressure air so its a paper weight now. :(
    If you have a 18 BW Basket give it a go if not but a replacement 15 BW basket
     
  18. Stu L.

    Stu L. Supporting Member

    Nov 27, 2001
    Corsicana, Texas
    If the VC diamater is the same between the 15 and 18, yes it will work. If not, just replace the 15" basket. Easy fix.
     
  19. luknfur

    luknfur

    Jan 14, 2004
    DIXIE
    FWIW:

    Speaker magnets can loose some over time but I'm talking 10-20 years. There's a date code on every speaker I've had so no doubt one on the PV. I know you can cheaply remagnitized pup mags so doubt it's any different for speakers. Unlikely the mag is the problem. At any rate, you can just grab a piece of metal and get a feel for the general attraction to each mag and compare them to get a ballpark, and that will probably be close enough.