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Speaker size vs sound

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Rockin John, Jan 29, 2003.

  1. Not that long ago...or so it seems...bassists played huge stacks with 18" drivers and the like. Then the size went down a bit and now 10" is quite the norm. But there are even cabs loaded with 8" drivers that get down to 30Hz. Or so I believe.

    Now, something small like that would be ideal for me. Perhaps handling a couple of hundred watts, tops, and being about the size of HiFi cabs from a few years back, I'd get it (them?) into the back of my modest estate car with ease.

    But what about the sound? Do these small drivers really deliver that low B? Can they do the business in a small club or pub? Or is it a case of hype from the ad men and the all to evident, compromise?

    I'm not particularly after makes and models information, just more knowledge on the subjest of small drivers and the low B.

    Your wisdom is always appreciated, guys.


  2. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    The trick with small drivers is that you need lots of em to deliver serious bottom end. That's why the most bass speakers that have 10" speakers will have 4 of em. But a 4x10 isn't all that small and probably won't fit in most car boots.

    8" speakers are the same, you need 8 of em to produce serious bottom end. But an 8x8 is the size of a small fridge.

    You could try a 2x10 but they're the same size as a single 15 - the 15 will be much better for the low B. Maybe whack a horn in it to cover a broader range of frequencies.

    I wouldn't use an 18" as a single speaker. You'd get great bottoms but nothing else. And they're big, deep cabinets usually.
  3. The Fane Colossus 18B-600 is an 18" driver that runs in 3.09 cubic feet tuned at 29 Hz. This is smaller than the Acme B2, the Eden D210-XLT, and the Avatar B210. The Fane driver is +1dB more sensitive than the Acme B-4.

    The Eminence Magnum 18LF is an 18" driver that runs 4.03 cubic feet at 32 Hz. It is smaller than the D210-XLT also.

    Either of these drivers crossed over at 500 Hz to an Eminence B102 (in a separate cab) will move far more bottom air than 10" drivers.

    For the record, I'm building the 18LF + B102 prototype right now.
  4. Ashdown mini 48 , amazing :D

    4x8" - 600watts - very wide range

    cabinet size , 500mm square x 300 deep , tiny :D
  5. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    That's rubbish! So - John was talking about "small clubs and pubs" - I have used a single EA VL208 and it reproduces the low B perfectly in these situations. I have used my 5 string bass guitar and also my 5 string Electric Double Bass EUB through this cab and playing say a low D at 3rd fret on the B string really shakes the room and gets some surprised looks!!

    I know lots of other players who use this cab which has 2 8s and 2 5s as well as a tweater, but which produces great bass response, due to the cab configuration.

    I saw Laurence Cottle who is one of the best Jazz players in the UK playing his Yamaha TRB5P through a single EA VL208 at my local Jazz club and it was very bassy and pretty loud - in fact some of the audience were complaining about how the bass was too loud!! ;)

    Conversely I have seen many players use small cabs with a single 10,12 or 15 and not get so much bass as the VL208 and in fact end up with distortion - whereas I have never heard my VL208 distort, no matter what was put through it or no matter how loud!!
  6. HannibalSpector


    Mar 27, 2002
    I use a really efficient single 18" at the moment in a EV TL box (I think the driver is a Guasse or something). The sound is really low and thick and surprisingly the upper Hzs are there too. I've noticed that the sound is quite compressed , which makes this cab great for slap playing, though I play metal. I really like it.:)
  7. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    But how does that answer the question actually asked? :rolleyes:

    Which was :

    "Do these small drivers really deliver that low B? Can they do the business in a small club or pub?"
  8. Go and try a mini 48 , you will be pleasantly surprised that such a small cabinet can have such a deep rich sound , no distortion , low b through the range.

    Ashdown's Mark Gooday rates it as "the best cab that he has ever designed" :)

    and this isn't just sales pitch to move stock , they are only made to order :eek:
  9. HannibalSpector


    Mar 27, 2002
    I've heard people complain that an SWr 8x8 doesn't deliver the low end that they'd like. An ampeg 8x10 sounds pretty big , I don't think you'd have many hassles getting your low B with one of them.
    More drivers , and cab design plays a major part.
    IMO you can't beat an 18 for 'phattness' , and an efficient 18 would be a reasonable compromise but not everybody wants to lug around an 18.

  10. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Well the EA VL208 is 19"W x 23"H x 14"D - small and compact and can definitely project the low B .

  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    -sounds like something I'd definitely want to avoid - especially in a "small club or pub" !!
  12. That EA cab looks very similar in size and spec to the mini 48 , weight is probably about the same too , it looks pretty neat :)

    Like you say , a small venue needs a small cab , sometimes for space considerations as much as volume.

    I also have a mini 15 (like it sounds 1x15 , same size cabinet) which I use with the 48 for larger venues (and when there is more room on the stage) , the two cabs combined with an ABM 500 Evo are suitable for any gig from the smallest pub to a large hall :)
  13. He's right , you know :cool:
  14. steve-o

    steve-o Guest

    Apr 17, 2002
    i just traded my 410 cab for a 2x15 2x12 cab.
    sure it is bigger but that is the comprimise i think. i think it sounds better and fuller. AND Deffently louder!!!

  15. Hmmmm.

    If a couple of (say) 10s in a cab is going to be less loud than my 1x15, I could just turn the volume up a bit:eek:

    If my Eminence Delta 15 in it's grossly undersized cab rolls off much too early to give a decent response @ low B, but 2, 10s in the same box didn't do that, I'd be better off with those drivers and just turn up the wick to compensate.

    OK, the 5 string is new to me. But I've used that cab indoors and out with a 4 string and not had any difficulty at all. In fact, that cab is all I've got. At rehersal, the cab appears to deliver low B with some ease, but I suspect that it'd look puny against the correct drivers in a properly designed cab.



    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    Greetings & Felicitations,

    Has anyone here played thru the Accugroove Grande 21" sub yet? I know Mark had one at NAMM this year & I couldn't make the trek. These cabs are supposed to be F# capable & then some! They do peak out early (400Hz) like a tue sub but I wonder how they would work with a 4x10 or ??? They would probably only benefit tunings in the A (low) - F# area, but I'm sure they're industrial strength sick!

  17. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    21" speaker? Does it come with a crane? Christ it may not even be heavy but it would be like trying to hug Rosanne Barr..... Sorry but I don't buy anything I cant carry around comfortably by myself.
  18. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    must admit, it looks good on paper.

    Now that I think of it, the first lot of 4x10's I tried didnt sound crash hot, but they evolved to sound pretty darn good. Perhaps we're looking at the future of bass cabs here.

    Question, is 50hz low enough for a low B? I Thought a low E was around 40hz and low B was more like 30hz? I could be wrong though. Either way the proof is in the listening, not the paper war.

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