Speakers: 2x8 vs. 15

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by fourstringdrums, Jun 24, 2008.

  1. fourstringdrums

    fourstringdrums Decidedly Indecisive Supporting Member

    Oct 20, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Forgive me if this has been discussed, I searched for 2x8 and didn't find anything appropriate and didn't know how to search otherwise.

    I currently have an Eden N8, and it's a fantastic little amp. But I'm looking to get a second amp that has some more power to it and a fuller tone. I have a $400 budget and because I love the N8 I'm looking at Eden. The tone really compliments my Precision well.

    Well I'm trying to decide between the N28 and the N15, but I can't decide on if I want the 2x8 or the single 15. What setup would have the most definition while retaining a deep, old school sound for my P? I want to say 15" but I've found most 15's really mushy and boomy sounding. Also I seem to remember hearing somewhere that because the 2x8 is 16" inches of speaker, that I'll technically have as full of a tone that I would get with the 15", but gain some definition because of the smaller speaker sizes. Is that true?
     
  2. IanStephenson

    IanStephenson UnRegistered User

    Apr 8, 2006
    You need to compare area's not diameters.

    2x8 is an area proportional to 2x8^2=128 while a 15 is proportional to 15^2=225. All things being equal 1x15 would push almost twice the air as 2x8. Even a 2x10 only reaches an area proportional to 2x10x10=200 which is still less area than a 1x15".

    Of course this doesn't tell you much about tone, but it's a better starting point than 2x8=16.

    Ian
     
  3. scottbass

    scottbass Bass lines like a big, funky giant

    Jul 13, 2004
    Southern MN
    Most definition: 2x8
    Deep, old school sound: 1x15
    There is nothing "deep" or "old school" about a 2x8

    Hahahaha :D

    Sorry about laughing.

    The total surface area of a single 8" speaker is about 50 square inches. (D/2 X D/2 X pi) The total
    surface area of two 8" speakers is therefore about 100 square inches.

    The total surface area of a single 15" speaker is almost 177 square inches. A single 15" speaker will give you almost twice the surface area of two 8" speakers.

    I don't know how you define "as full of a tone". A 2x8 will probably have better definition than a 1x15, but there's no way I would play a P bass through a 2x8 cabinet and expect to get anything resembling a deep, old school sound.
     
  4. 3506string

    3506string

    Nov 18, 2004
    Lawton, OK
    Given your description dont think you would get want from a 2x8. 2x8s aren't usually used as stand-alone cabs. Volume wise a 1x15 will likely (not always) handle more power and give a fuller tone.
     
  5. Chef

    Chef In Memoriam

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    You've not played a Low Down Sound 2x8. They'll knock you down. Here's one, on top of a Schroeder 1210:
    tfbmini.gif


    Course, this has nothing to do with the OP's eden question.


    .[/QUOTE]There is nothing "deep" or "old school" about a 2x8

    I don't know how you define "as full of a tone". A 2x8 will probably have better definition than a 1x15, but there's no way I would play a P bass through a 2x8 cabinet and expect to get anything resembling a deep, old school sound.[/QUOTE]
     
  6. Kindness

    Kindness

    Oct 1, 2003
    Chicago
    Again, sorry about laughing, but surface area isn't a helpful number. Vd is more along the lines of what you are looking for. It is the volume displaced or the effective area of the speaker times the xmax. One of the many reasons simple comparisons of driver diameters are next to meaningless.
     
  7. fourstringdrums

    fourstringdrums Decidedly Indecisive Supporting Member

    Oct 20, 2002
    Massachusetts
    I'm terrible at math so I'll take everyone's word for it. I only thought I read something here about 2x8 = 16" for example. I very well may have, just from someone who didn't know any better.

    By "full tone" I mean something that is a bigger, rounder tone that sounds more substantial and fills the room more even if it's at a lower volume.

    As I said, I'm very impressed by the 1x8 I have, I just didn't know if the 2x8 would get me to where I want to go. But judging by the post, the 15 may be the better bet.
     
  8. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Guest Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    You need to compare cone displacement (Vd), as that's what limits potential output. An average eight has a Vd of 70 cc, an average fifteen 300 cc.
     
  9. first of all, some 8's are designed to reproduce deep notes. the ones designed for the low notes wont reproduce the higher end very well, and if it does then the sensitivity wont be very good.

    designing a speaker/cab is basically about compromising. you might aim for low end extension, which will mean that you will have to trade off high frequencies and/or sensitivity. you might design it to be full range, and then you might have to trade off the lowest frequencies and/or the sensitivity.

    the size of the speaker and the xmax only really tells you how much air it will push. a speaker designed for low sounds will have a stiffer cone, as the push from the driver will flex the cone more on the low frequencies. this usually means that the driver has more trouble vibrating at higher frequencies, due to more weight on the cone.



    what does this have to do with the speaker size??
    very little, which is my point. speakers are designed to do certain things. and they do. a 15" can be designed to be brighter and "faster" (not dependant on speaker diameter like people say) than most any 10's that are used for bass guitar. its true 15's have a lower limit to the amount of highs they will make, but that level doesnt differ much from 10's, and if you want that tone with alot of the high frequencies you will need a tweeter wether you go 10's or 15's or 8's.

    we need to compare certain cabinets and speakers based on the product itself, not the size of the speaker and the misconceptions that go with it.
     
  10. fourstringdrums

    fourstringdrums Decidedly Indecisive Supporting Member

    Oct 20, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Specifically I'm comparing the Eden N28 and N15. I already have an N8, but as I said I was looking for more power and a fuller tone. I'd probably keep the N8 some where else in the house. Something tells me I'm going to prefer the N28, but I was concerned too that it wouldn't be much different than the 1x8 N8. But, the N28 has a different pre-amp than the N8 so I have to consider that as well. There is one on Ebay now, new, for $270 with free shipping, $300 BIN vs. $400 any where else, so it's peaking my interest.
     
  11. Chef

    Chef In Memoriam

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    the pix of the n28 make the speeks look similar to the kevlar impregnated cones LDS uses in the cab I posted. The box looks a little smaller in volume than the LDS box, and it's specs say it's low end is tuned a little higher...I bet it's a very nice sounding rig, and if you're satisifed with the 1x8, I think you'd like the 2x8 quite well.
     
  12. ampegfatty

    ampegfatty Guest

    Jun 3, 2008
    Houston, TX
    Originally Posted by fourstringdrums View Post
    Also I seem to remember hearing somewhere that because the 2x8 is 16" inches of speaker, that I'll technically have as full of a tone that I would get with the 15", but gain some definition because of the smaller speaker sizes. Is that true?
    You need to compare area's not diameters.

    2x8 is an area proportional to 2x8^2=128 while a 15 is proportional to 15^2=225. All things being equal 1x15 would push almost twice the air as 2x8. Even a 2x10 only reaches an area proportional to 2x10x10=200 which is still less area than a 1x15".

    Of course this doesn't tell you much about tone, but it's a better starting point than 2x8=16.

    Ian"

    Efficiency of a cabinet is definitely not proportional to the area of the drivers. It is much more complicated than that and doesn't really rely on the driver area.
     
  13. I'm a recent convert to a 2x8 cab. But I think what you're describing is really what a 15" cab does so well. I've had really good luck with Mesa 15's and Bag End 15's. Definitely not mushy or boomy. Well defined. I've also read good reviews of Ampeg's classic 1X15 and the fliptops b-15 cab reproductions. It really depends on what you're looking for. I love my new Aguilar 2x8, but I still have much love for my Bag End 15's...
     
  14. With a '51ri or 57ri I get great old school tone with a SWR BBII. Now it has the long throw LDS 8"s and that nice cone tweeter. I get that tone but at no where near the volume a 1x15 would give in the same situation with the same watts. As you turned up the two rigs you'd get more usable volume out of the 1x15 while the 2x8s would start to breakup and lose that old school tone before the 15" did.
    This doesn't help you decide between your two selections though.:(