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Speakers (Again... Yahoo!!)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Gabu, Apr 26, 2001.


  1. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Howdy guys....

    quickie for ya. 1200 watt 15" speakers. If they say 1200 watt, can you still expect them to work with much less than that? Does the allowable wattage rating have anything to do with the minimum wattage allowed, or is that mostly related to the size of the speaker?

    The reason... I have not yet been able to afford to replace my silly little fisher speakers out of my 2x15 peavey cab. But I could purchase 2 1200 watt 15" speakers for $40 a pop. The only thing I know about them is that they are 15" with 2.5" voice coil and 110 ounce magnet.

    But the 1200 watt thing throws me... If I have 2, that's like 2400 watts. So if I needed at least half of that, it would be tough...
     
  2. You've got nothing to worry about. Just because the speakers have a high maximum power rating doesn't mean you have to power them to that level. They'll work just as good with a 300W amp as they will with a 1200W. Most of the time you'd only be putting in the neighbourhood of 1 - 10 Watts into them anyway, unless you were really hammering the amp.... Speakers that handle a lot of power are sometimes less efficient than ones that handle less, but this isn't always the case. Do you know what their efficiency is?
     
  3. Turock

    Turock Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2000
    Melnibone
    There is a danger in underpowering cabinets. Not enough power can cause clipping.
     
  4. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    Nope... I don't know their efficiency. The thing that makes me think that they will be better than what I have is the magnet. I swear the ones that I have right now must have a 5 ounce magnet. When I opened the cab up and pulled out a speaker I was amazed at how light it was. It was lighter than the 8s I put in my 4x8 easily.
     
  5. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    That makes sense... So, mechanically that means you just don't have enough juice to push the speaker cone completely back and forth properly.
     
  6. That's not quite true. Almost, but not quite. The cabinets do not cause clipping. Ever. Underpowering is only a problem if you allow the amp to clip. Say you had two cabinets and a 300 watt amp. Say one cab could handle 300 watts and the other could handle 1200, also say that their efficiency is the same. The amp's going to begin clipping at 300 watts regardless of what cab is connected. If both cabinets have the same effieciency the volume will be exactly the same. Which one will blow up first? I'd bet the 300 watt one would go first, because the heavier drivers would have better heat dissipation. Having less power than speaker power handling capacity is only a problem if you let the amp clip constantly. Of course if the amp's not loud enough before clipping you need more power.
     
  7. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    gbrooks, sounds like those are super-cheapy 15s that your are planning to replace. My first amp (Univox) had a 15" with a tiny magnet - first time I hooked it up to a bigger amp, it made an impressive smoke show.

    Second thing is, I'm extremely skeptical about the 1200-watt rating for a driver. Especially with a 2.5" voice coil. That is almost 2 horsepower! Anyway - I doubt the power handling of those is much more than 400 watts. If you'd give us the make and model number, it would be easier to discuss this. I would expect a 15" speaker that could handle even 600 watts RMS continuously would run well over $200-300 US apiece (new).

    Once again, I must take exception to the "underpowering damages speakers" bit. The correct answer is: clipping of amplifiers can damage speakers if the amplifier's clipped output exceeds the handling capacity of the speakers. If you clip a 100-watt amplifier like crazy, there is no way it will damage a speaker rated for handling 400 watts continuously, for example. Spacegoat is right: if you have to drive an amp into clipping, you need either a bigger amp, more efficient speakers, or both.

    - Mike
     
  8. Turock

    Turock Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2000
    Melnibone
    I don't know where you got that quote. That is not what I said or meant. But I do agree that Spacegoat is right.
     
  9. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    They claim to be 1200 watts. But If they are 1/2 that or even 1/3 that it would be okay for me. I am planning on powering them with the lower end of my R600 head, so they will get between 400 and 500w tops. Sometimes I will power them with my old Radio Shack tube amp... so then they will get just 100w.

    "...1200 watt 15" Pyramid pw1586 with 2 year factory warranty brand new in box!..."

    "...features;hi performance paper cone,wide heavy foam surround,ridgid powdre coated stamped steel basket,bumped and vented pole piece. 110OZ. MAGNET! 2.5'' kapton voice coil,4 ohm impedance, pyramid hyper pro-series..."

    I haven't been able to find any info on Pyramid stuff. I assume they are some generic fly by night group. But the price is right. ;) Also since they are 4 ohms I can make them into a 8 ohm cabinet and not burn up my amp. :) If I like these I was thinking about buying one more to put in my 4x8 cab. (I want to rip the faceplate off, cut a new faceplate with 2x8, 1x15 config and stick a crossover inside... using it for my keyboard and PA. :p
     
  10. ubersam

    ubersam

    Oct 12, 2000
    L.A.
    G, if I remember correctly, Pyramid makes car audio stuff. Those 15" may very well be subwoofers for a car audio system. I had a gigantic cheeseball of an Eq/power booster from them way back in the day. The tech documentation for it was immensely overrated & misleading (200watts of amplification from an IC? Come on.). If that's any indication of their product quality, you might be dissatisfied with the results.

    here, check this out - http://nexxon.com/pyramid/superprowoofer.htm
     
  11. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    ... I just bought 'em.

    Hopefully they are better than what I have. I paid forty smackers a piece for em.

    I will letcha know.
     
  12. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Turock - I apologize. I did misunderstand your point. I've just seen the "clipping/damage" thing thrown about loosely a lot in these threads, so overreacted. Sorry.

    gbrooks - I agree with ubersam. I'd stay away from Pyramid for musical instrument applications. I'm not sure what you're after, but if you want good quality, power handling, and long life, you generally have to pay for it. (I'm even more convinced that their power rating is way overinflated.)

    - Mike
     
  13. Yep, car subwoofers are a definitely a no go. :(

    I'd be surprised if the sensitivity is over 90 dB. Furthermore, the 1200 W is I think the absolute peak rating, called PMPO. It is a measurement method which drives the number up like insane. A 50 W RMS speaker could end up being 1000 watts just like that. I'm sure the speaker would survive a one millisecond 1200 W peak :)

    Gbrooks, by the way, $40 for a 15" 1200 watts speaker???????????????? What did you think you'd get????????

    For a 600W 15" I pay $250.......
     
  14. g brooks,4ohm+4ohm=2ohm=possible amp damage..2 16 ohm speakers would make a 8 ohm load
     
  15. 4 ohm + 4 ohm = 8 ohms if wired in series. :D
     
  16. I stand corrected..I forgot all about that series, paralell thing...so I got a question...if wired in series,what would a 8 ohm cab and a 4 ohm cab load be????:) and how would I do this???:)
     
  17. Turock

    Turock Supporting Member

    Apr 30, 2000
    Melnibone
    That's OK man. We're cool.
     
  18. AssMan

    AssMan

    Dec 2, 2000
    Minnesota, USA
  19. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    The $99 Carvin 15" may well handle 600 WRMS continuously (so they claim), so it's a good point. However, the Carvin speaker is by no means the best 15" on the market - if you compare specs (sensitivity, freq. response) and T-S parameters for similar instrument speakers. Besides, Joris is in Europe, and the exchange rate and local speaker sources may affect the ultimate price.

    But your comment is well taken, AM - I'd much rather see gbrooks get the Carvin than the Pyramid for his application.
    - Mike
     
  20. AssMan

    AssMan

    Dec 2, 2000
    Minnesota, USA
    It's the best speaker for the $ though. I agree that there are better speakers out there with better responce curves, T-S, QTS, and all the other tech stuff.