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Speakers out of phase?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by insomniac2295, Apr 5, 2009.


  1. I have an Avatar B410 Neo that I rewired for 2 ohms a few months ago, so I could put 700 watts into it from my Peavey Max 700. So far, it's been pretty great. However, I feel like I should have WAY more headroom than I have right now. Especially playing in a 3 piece with a guitarist who uses a Peavey 212 cab and a Marshall AVT150(I know, I know. He's saving up for a real amp right now).

    As of right now, I'm only able to just keep up with him. Virtually no headroom at all. Is it a problem with my ears or is there something wrong with my amp? I read some posts and I'm starting to think that there's a speaker or two out of phase.
     
  2. mrkreuzschlitz

    mrkreuzschlitz

    Jun 30, 2008
    Dacula, GA
    Check with a 9v. All the speakers should move the same way when you put it on it (positive on the 9v to the positive on the speaker cable, etc). If not, they're outta phase. They should push out when you do the + and + together, I believe. A buddy's 215 cab was out of phase and that's how I showed him to check, we took the speaker out and switched the terminals,
    voila.

    :)
     
  3. Hi.

    +1 for the 9V test. Never fails.

    As for the lack of headroom, there could be other reasons for that too ;).

    Regards
    Sam
     
  4. mrkreuzschlitz

    mrkreuzschlitz

    Jun 30, 2008
    Dacula, GA
    If you're outta phase, you'll have to push your amp REALLY hard to get out any sound. It'll sound like you have no headroom in phase, IME.
     
  5. 3506string

    3506string

    Nov 18, 2004
    Lawton, OK
    How were you fairing with the cabinet wired at 8 ohms. If you were getting buried with the 275 watts then I would say just keeping up now is about reasonable. Even though 270 to 700 watts is a big power boost it isn't a huge db boost as far as loudness in concerned.
     
  6. Martizmo

    Martizmo

    Mar 26, 2009
    Metro Detroit
    If you get the phase problem solved and you have too much headroom. try plugging your bass into the -10 db input for a lower signal. This will allow you to push the head harder so your in the sweet spot range, Otherwise at 700 watts you may be playing on a setting of 2 or 3 which may sound like poo
     
  7. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Chances are there's nothing wrong. Going to 2 ohms isn't going to make a huge difference in the output of your rig. As far as keeping up with a 2x12 guitar rig that could require having four times his output capability, so if he really wants to bury your 4x10, he will.
     
  8. Blues Bass 2

    Blues Bass 2 Supporting Member

    Oct 3, 2001
    Davenport Iowa
    Also if you have a couple speakers out of phase your low end will have almost gone away. Chances are you don't have a any out of phase if you still have bottom end. Best thing is to add another 410 or even just a 210 might give you enough volume. Stacking either on top of the 410 you have will get them closer to ear level too making it easier to hear. You might not need to be louder, you might just need to hear your cab better.
     
  9. Rick Auricchio

    Rick Auricchio Registered Bass Offender

    +1 to Bill's comments. The amp's output at 2 ohms won't be that much help, and the cab is probably just running out of volume.

    You can push more more power into the cabinet...but you'll just damage the speakers.
     
  10. R Baer

    R Baer Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jun 5, 2008
    President, Baer Amplification
    +1 to Bill's comments. I have been in bands where I have a hard time keeping up with a guitarist using a single 12" cab and 50watts. If you do need to be pouder, you are much better off adding another cabinet than you are pumping more watts into the one you have.

    Of course the best solution is for everyone to turn down. I watch more bands waste their rehearsal time by engaging in volume wars and drowning each other out. If you are rehearsing, the point is for everyone to hear themselves, and the vocals clearly. This allows you to hear the details and the dynamics much better and actually spend your rehearsal time working on making the songs better. If you want to hear what your band really sounds like, try turning down as quiet as possible and actually listen to the song. You would be amazed at how much this will improve your band (and your technique). A much better solution than trying to compete with your guitar players volume.

    (note - In my many years of experience, getting the guitarist to turn down is a bit like teaching a pig to sing. It only waste your time and annoys the pig.)

    If you are at a gig, keeping the volume under control is the best way to improve your audiences listening experience.
     
  11. +1000

    The point is for everyone to play loud enough so they can hear everyone ELSE in the band. Volume wars happen when everyone is wanking and only interested in hearing themselves.

    Few exceptions exist, as when two guys put their amps behind each other instead of behind themselves. Guitar player one time wanted to be center stage, but wanted his amp on the outside to get a "stereo effect" with the other guitar player. :rolleyes: So my amp ended up next to the drummer, behind the guitar player, and I ended up in front of the guitar amp. He wasn't bad about volume usually, but that was the last time I agreed to that setup. Figured it was stupid idea, but harmless. It was very bad, guaranteed to cause volume wars.

    Randy
     

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