Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bizzaro, May 31, 2001.

  1. bizzaro


    Aug 21, 2000
    I want to put together a couple of cabs to replace my cyclops speakers. That combo just isn't working out for me and my band. I can't get enough clean volume or the sound I want out of that set up. My plan is to go with two cabs. A 15 or an 18 separate with a 2x10 or a 4x10 with a horn. I am considering a eminence kappa 18 for the low end in a box that is 36-3/4 x 25 x 16-1/2. It is 400 watts. I will drive this set up with my Carvin R600 amp. It can be biamped, stereo, or bridged. Can I run the 18 by itself till I can afford to get the other cab?? And how will I balance the other box once I get it? Watts,ohms,frequency,etc? So back to the question,"will the Kappa 18 work well with a combo or by itself"??
  2. bizzaro


    Aug 21, 2000
    Any of you audiophiles out there familiar with the eminence kappa 18?? Could you please give an opinion on the kappa 18. My goal is to increase volume and get a bigger low end?? Joris?? Mickyd?? Bgavin?? HELP!!
  3. The Kappa 18 performs optimally in 26 cubic feet. However, the Sigma Pro 18, Kilomax Pro 15, Kappa 15LF, perform well in your specified cabinet size. The Sigma and Kilomax move the same amount of air volume, and have the same low frequency response. The Kilomax runs optimally in 5.2 cubic feet where the Sigma Pro 18 wants 7.6 cubic feet. My personal preference is the Kilomax in the Eminence line. These drivers appear to good to about 2,000 Hz maximum, according to their reponse charts. You need to go at least 6,000 Hz for sparkle and presence, so by itself it will sound thuddy.

    Grab a copy of my Musician's Reference spreadsheet and you can sort it in a variety of different ways (volume, frequency, size, etc) to see what moves you.

  4. bizzaro


    Aug 21, 2000
    Thanks for your response. I have to decide if I want to bid on this cab by tonight. It is one of those ebay deals. So you vote "no" to the Kappa 18? At least in the box (which is only about a third of the recomended cubic ft?)that it would come in. I don't want to get another set up that doesn't cut it. I am on a tight buget and am looking for a quick fix that will get me by for a while. I know nothing about speakers and the technical part of sound equipment. I need a set up that will reproduce a low b and at volume cleanly. I can't hear myself on stage and getting guitarist to turn down is like talking to a deaf mute! Any ideas on how to maximize my amp,(carvin r600), would be welcomed.Thanks again and thanks for the web site. I haven't been there yet but am on my way now.
  5. MikeyD


    Sep 9, 2000
    You really have a difficult technical question, and I haven't had time to "analyze" it. I did look at some of the better Eminence and JBL drivers in Parts Express, and my impression was that the good-performing 18" drivers were FAR more expensive and required a LOT more cabinet volume than the corresponding 15" drivers.

    Given the size cabinet you are working with, and your obvious desire for efficient output, I suggest looking for an efficient 15" driver that could work well in that volume. You might have to retune the ports, but there is help available for that (check out bgavin's or joris's threads).

    I also have the R600, and it is barely adequate in a loud band situation, particularly with Carvin speakers - which are inefficient. It clipped a lot in that situation. I have upgraded part of my rig - I usually run the Carvin R1000 into an Eden 2x15 on the bottom with a Carvin 2x10 on the top. If you are short on funds and can't compete volume-wise, you might try more seriously to get the other players to turn down. If they don't care about the overall sound of the band (i.e., drowning out the bass player), then maybe you should look for players who do!

    Another point: getting a fat low B and getting your rig heard over a loud band are almost physically opposing goals. It can be done, but it usually requires lots of bucks and strong backs. A lot of guys recommend EQ'ing the low bass down to give you more power to be heard in the rest of the range.

    - Mike
  6. The Kappa 18 stuffed into a 7.2 cubic foot box will have a mid-bass hump, and be down more than 7 dB at 31 Hz. In 26 cubic feet, the Kappa 18 kicks butt. This is a cabinet size of 59" x 37 x 23.5". Yuck.

    You might look at the Kappa 15LF model in 7.2 cubic feet, tuned to 31 Hz. It looks like it might support your low B adequately with some bass boost.

    If you can stand a larger cabinet, the Eminence Legend B15 bass instrument speaker runs in 11.6 cubic feet (45.5" x 28.5 x 18) puts out 100 SPL, and is down -3dB at 32 Hz. The downside is the larger cabinet. This is a common factor if you want both efficient and loud drivers: huge cabinets.

    You are faced with the same problem I have: a need to reproduce the low B, and at volume. There simply isn't any magic solution for this, as much as I bang my head against the wall trying to find one. My solution is low efficiency drivers (Rockford RFR-2215 car audio subwoofers) driven with a 3,000 watt amp. The newer Rockford RFR-3115 drivers have the same flat response, but in about half the cabinet volume. One of these will run fine in 3.0 cubic feet. They are only 89 SPL, so they suck the juice.

    My solution requires a mid-bass driver because the subwoofer reponse is all done at 200 Hz. For bass, you need to reproduce to 6,000 Hz to get the presence and sparkle in the instrument. This means high powered crossovers, or bi-amping. The low SPL is a factor for loudness. I have to run 1,000 watts for my Rockfords to keep up with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with a single 12" JBL E120 installed. Check out the DB tab on my spreadsheet, as you can plug in the SPL of your speaker, then compare SPL levels at different power ratings and distances from the stage.

    If you get my spreadsheet, check out the CABS tab, and sort it by ascending order on the -3dB column. This will show you which commercial cabs will do a decent job of low B at 31 Hz.
  7. bizzaro


    Aug 21, 2000
    Thanks tons. You guys are great!! I know there is a lot more to just getting speakers and putting them in a box, but I don't know the particulars. The last thing I want is poorly designed equipment. I guess I'll keep looking. I can't afford Bag End or Eden. Would 4x10 help in the volume end of my dilemma? I know you get what you pay for but---The speaker hole, www.speakerhole.com, has a 4x10 that is really cheap and might be a quick fix at $169. What do ya think?? Would it be an improvement over my Carvin(1x15,2x8w/horn)cab??
    OPINIONS :confused: PLEASE
  8. You can't beat the price with a club. They must produce these things in vast quantities to get the price down this low.

    I can't find anything on this cab other than dimensions and price, so its performance would be just a guess. If I were making the decision, it would be based on "you get what you pay for." This isn't much help, I'm afraid.
  9. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    bgavin and MikeyD ~

    You guys rule. RULE!
  10. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Bettendorf, IA USA
    Speakerhole's 410 cabinet is only 11" deep. For reference, nearly all 410 cabs are 17-19" deep. IT might be ok to run only as the top of a bi-amp rig, but I wouldn't think it had enough mass to perform in full range.