Splitting a Sansamp (dry parallel into amp and post-SA into FX-return simultaneously?)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Henxis, Nov 30, 2017.

  1. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    Hey people,

    So I came across some (kind of) similar threads but couldn't find one concerning this specific scenario?:

    My bass goes into a Sansamp Bass Driver DI which has a 1/4 jack parallel out sending away dry signal right? If I plug that dry signal into the regular input of my amphead and connect the gritty tones coming through the output of the Sansamp into the FX-return of the same amphead and run those 2 signals simultaneously through the poweramp, what would happen?

    Does it blend or does the FX-return injection cancel out the amphead's pre-amp with the dry signal running throught it? Orrrrr, could I hurt the poweramp? (the reason why I don't just try it out)
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
    PullThePlug likes this.
  2. Jay Corwin

    Jay Corwin Supporting Member

    Jan 29, 2008
    Sanborn, NY
    Why?
     
  3. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    I guess the question comes down to: can I run a dirty and a clean signal through different preamps into 1 poweramp?

    Without 1 signal compromising the other
     
  4. Kro

    Kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Right.

    What amp are you talking about? Is there a blend or anything similar on your FX loop? Very amp dependent as to how it would function, though my gut is telling me (from the way you're describing it), that the signal you have going into the FX return will likely break the typical amp preamp signal, so all you'll get is the SansAmp affected signal into your amp's power amp section.

    Give us more details and we can confirm though.
     
    NOVAX likes this.
  5. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    Currently still running around with an Ampeg B2-R. No FX blend
     
  6. Kro

    Kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    My suggestion if you absolutely need to run both pres, and have them not affect one another, is to get a blender - like this one: blender

    Chain would be:

    Bass to BDDI

    BDDI affected out into blender input 1 (run with +10db on 1/4 engaged to get a level closer to your send, probably)

    BDDI parallel out into amp preamp, and then FX send into blender input 2

    Blend together, and output into FX return.
     
  7. Kro

    Kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Ah, let me think about it, that might change things a bit since it has an FX loop AND power amp in/out...

    Edit: yup, it does - just swap out my mentions of FX loop send/return with preamp-out and poweramp-in and you should be good I think.
     
  8. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    I feared it wouldn't work, hoped for a closed wallet solution ;).

    So the poweramp handling it won't be a prob, it's the FX-return breaking the chain from the heads pre-amp that is.

    Ty!
     
  9. Kro

    Kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    If I were in your shoes (and in a way I am, I use a VTDI like this), I'd just run my bass into the BDDI, utilize the blend there, and then feed that into the input of my amp. Might take a little work to make sure that the EQs aren't fighting each other, but if you keep one or the other preamps relatively flat, you can use the other to flavor as necessary.

    I get the desire for a clean blend, but any reason in particular why you want to have both preamps running independently?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  10. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    Mostly because I want to voice the low dry and the gainy OD differently. I was searching for a setup without buying new gear
     
  11. Kro

    Kro

    May 7, 2003
    New Jersey
    Yeah, with your amp (unless I'm mistaken), you'll need some way to either combine or blend the signals. There are likely lower tech, cheaper solutions to do this than a blender if you just want to smash them together, but I'll let others chime in with ideas on that front. For whatever reason I have an (uneducated) general distrust of Y adapters, though I see them recommended here from time to time.
     
  12. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    The pedal is already set up to allow you to balance the un-effected signal with the SansAmp signal via the Blend control. If you're trying to have the preamp of your amp mixed with the BDDI through the efx loop you would pretty much need a mixer or blender as suggested, Some A/B pedals can work for that as well. If you have a regular mixer like a Mackie laying around you could try with that. The main issue you might have would be if there is a phase or ground issue. Is the Blend function on the pedal not working for you?
     
    Lo Ki, blubass and HolmeBass like this.
  13. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    I'm thinking about splitting a dry and a OD before the SA on second thought because my Dr. NO Black Magic sounds way better when its in front of the preamp
     
  14. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    The blend works fine! I wanted the voicings of both lines to be isolated from each other.

    Ty for the advice!
     
    svtb15 likes this.
  15. PullThePlug

    PullThePlug

    Jan 8, 2014
    Sacramento
    I'll be darned. I always thought the blend was for blending in the cab sim.

    Wait, just consulted the manual.

    "BLEND controls the ratio of SansAmp Tube Amplifier Emulation circuitry and your direct instrument signal. In most cases, you will probably have this set at maximum (100% SansAmp). For certain applications, however, such as an ultra-transparent sound or for use with piezo pickup-equipped instruments, you may want to blend-in the direct signal to achieve your desired sound. While the SansAmp Tube Amplifier Emulation circuitry is bypassed when Blend is at minimum, the Mid, Bass, Treble and Level controls remain active."

    So the blend knob still is just for tube emulation then, and the pedal is still stacking its tone on top of your preamp.

    I get what OP is going for. I was able to achieve this by putting my sansamp in the FX loop of my SWR SM-900, which has an effects blend.

    You can achieve this by using an effects blend pedal IN YOUR EFFECTS LOOP, not in front of the amp.

    Get ready for some wild sounds and solid tone.
     
  16. Henxis

    Henxis

    Nov 30, 2017
    Netherlands
    Yeah its quite easy to get using multiple amps, but I don't really fancy bringing those for every gig. I'll look into some blenders guys ;)
     
  17. mexicanyella

    mexicanyella

    Feb 16, 2015
    Troy, MO
    I think some Ampeg research might be in order here...I have a Peavey guitar combo with FX loop jacks and preamp out/power amp in jacks, and I think there's an amplification stage in between, so the level coming off the FX send is a little lower than the one coming from the preamp out. Knowing whether your Ampeg is like this might be useful.

    Some kind of rackmount line-level mixer, maybe? Might find one used somewhere. Feed the Ampeg preamp signal from the FX send into a channel of that, and the Sansamp-effected signal into another, blend to taste, and then send the blend to the Ampeg power amp in jack...?
     
  18. NOVAX

    NOVAX

    Feb 7, 2009
    Kalifornia
    This.
     
  19. tech21nyc

    tech21nyc Commercial User

    Aug 17, 2010
    Manufacturer: Tech 21
    The Blend allows you to mix the un-effected sound of your instrument (with EQ) with the SansAmp circuit as you would on a mixing console.The SansAmp circuit is the the tube amp emulation including speaker emulation. On the Bass Deiver DI the Drive and Presence controls are the SansAmp portion of the circuit. All other controls are post. Vintage amps had no Blend which is why we recommend running the Blend up full. There is no right or wrong. We do advise to set your bass amp's tone controls more on the neutral side if running the pedal in front of the amp so the two EQ's will not fight with one another. In you're case if you have a parallel loop you can run the pedal independent of your amp's tone section which is cool.

    The Bass Driver DI is just that, a DI. The original intention of the product was that you would run your bass to the pedal and send the parallel out to your bass amp and use that as you normally do for your stage sound and send the XLR of the BDDI to the mixer. The advantage of this is you would have the sound of a vintage mic'd tube amp coming through the PA vs the flat sound of just your guitar's pickups. In the end as long as you like the sound you are getting that's all that matters.
     
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  20. PullThePlug

    PullThePlug

    Jan 8, 2014
    Sacramento
    And this just adds to why I love Tech 21 products. Thanks for breaking that down for me and the detailed response!
    I love running the blend on my Sansamp at full, it gives that booty-shaking awesome sound.

    I'm excited for what you guys have to offer in the future! The Sansamp V2 was an awesome addition to the family.