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Stage Monitor ideas?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by soundoholic, May 7, 2003.


  1. I need some advice on what gear I want for my stage monitor setup. Right now I am running through the house pa and use my gear as a monitor system, but I want to quit the combo world and go rack. I have an eden metro combo amp(8ohms) and I set it with low amount of bass, high mids, and flat highs. I turn the horn all the way up.

    My ideas: get an acme b2, stewart 1.2 world, and a sansamp tech 21 rbi. That should cut through the mix right? thats what I'm going for. Or maybe get an eden 210 xlt instead.

    I could really use your help guys. Any opinions or ideas would be great. Also, would you suggest putting my speaker in a amp stand or put it on my rack?

    Thanks
     
  2. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    Going from an Eden 210XLT (which plus an amp is what the metro is) to an Acme 2x10 you might be surprised at the volume, or lack thereof, you get. The Edens are some of the most sensitive cabs out there, while the Acmes are some of the least sensitive ones. That said, if your band doesn't have real loud stage volumes the acme might be enough for you to hear yourself, especially if you put in on a stand or tilt it so that the speakers are pointing at your ears and not your feet.
     
  3. I know eden speakers are very sensitive and acme's are not but they will be on the oposite ends of the spectrum power wise. the eden metro only gets about 200 watts while the acme will be getting 700 watts. I think the acme will be loud enough i'm just wondering if this setup will work well as a stage monitor.
    Is there a formula where you can figure out the total db of a cabinet at max power. Like take sensitivity and multipy it by so many watts? just curious.
     
  4. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    The sensitivity of the Eden 210XLT is 103dB. With 200W of power the SPL of the Eden is 103 + 10*log(200) = 126.0 dB. The sensitivity of the acme 210 is 93 dB. The RMS rating is 350W, so theoretically the max SPL for the acme is 93 + 10*log(350) = 118.4 dB. Even if you could get all 700W into the acme that would give you 93 + 10*log(700) = 121.5 dB, which is still 4.5 dB less than the Eden.
     
  5. wow, thanks for the scientific stuff. That's very usefull. Thanks for the help Phat Ham!

    I would however also like to see if someone who has a/b'd an acme vs. eden. Because Frequency differences change everything. I think.
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    They're very different cab designs. The eden concentrates on a narrower spectrum of frequencies to achieve that massive sensitivity rating. I think it was Bgavin who suggested that they made a speaker designed for a massive cab, then shoved into a smaller cab to get a big hump in the mid-bass frequencies that cut through (at the expense of group delay but no-one seems to mind).

    The Acmes have a much broader frequency range with the lower sensitivity being the trade off. The Acme will handle the super low frequencies better if that's important to you, and have a better group delay charactaristic. Basically an alternative to using a 15 for lows.

    2 very different cabs that won't necessarily compliment each other - maybe. Try it out. See how you go.
     
  7. jdombrow

    jdombrow Supporting Member

    Jan 16, 2002
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Since your basically using it for a stage monitor only, the predominant frequencies and tone will not be as important. I think you will want to accentuate the mids and highs so you can hear yourself on stage. Too much low frequency will only make it sound muddy. You'll need to get used to trusting the PA for your live tone.
     
  8. guys I think I have made a decission. I am going to probably get an eden 210xlt or 210t. I think the acme's are good for low end only from what I've heard so it's not really a good idea for a monitor since I don't want mud, I want mids. Thanks guys.
     
  9. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    Whatever happened to the Eden 210XST? When it came out people were raving about it, but I haven't seen or heard much about it lately. It might be another cab to look into.
     
  10. yeah, I'm looking at it. It's lighter and can take 450 watts. Louder is better.
     
  11. Lonnybass

    Lonnybass Supporting Member

    Jul 19, 2000
    Minneapolis by way of Chicago
    Endorsing Artist: Pedulla Basses
    In support of using an Acme as a monitor over an Eden (or anything else, for that matter)...

    The Acmes are held in high regard for two things - clearly reproducing the fundamental of an open B string, and accurately projecting your tone without any coloration.

    If you're looking to have a stage monitor, you could get any number of speaker enclosures that will let you hear yourself onstage.

    But if you're looking to know the exact sound being sent to the mixing board, the Acmes will let you hear PRECISELY what your bass, preamp and effects are doing.

    My point is this - hearing "yourself" onstage and hearing what you sound like are two different things. Personally, I prefer to have some control, and my Acmes enable me to hear what's happening in the chain. Call me crazy!

    For reference, my main stage system is as follows:

    Lonnybass
    Alembix F-1x preamp
    Korg tuner (one side of effects loop)
    Aphex parametric equalizer
    BBE sonic maximizer
    Behringer compressor
    Crown CE-2000 power amplifier
    Acme Low B-2
    Acme Low B-2
     
  12. RichBriere

    RichBriere Guest

    Jan 1, 2003
    Upstate NY
    Should you add two pounds of salt and a dozen fresh bananas to the mix, however, this changes EVERYTHING and you instantly become an accordion player! :D

    RB
     
  13. With all due respect to Acme speakers, I feel that once you plug your bass rig into the mixing board with a sound man, your bass tone is out of your hands. The engineer is gonna tweak the knobs until the bass sounds right ( or wrong ) no matter what you might be sending. jmho
     
  14. Lonnybass

    Lonnybass Supporting Member

    Jul 19, 2000
    Minneapolis by way of Chicago
    Endorsing Artist: Pedulla Basses
    B]With all due respect to Acme speakers, I feel that once you plug your bass rig into the mixing board with a sound man, your bass tone is out of your hands. The engineer is gonna tweak the knobs until the bass sounds right ( or wrong ) no matter what you might be sending. jmho[/B]

    I definitely agree with this statement. But if I'm going to be sending something to the board, it might as well be the best sounding "me" that I can deliver. Just my preference.

    Lonnybass
     
  15. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Although I don't do nearly as many gigs on sound as I do on bass, I do enough to know that a lot of bass players underestimate how much of their stage sound makes it out front. With all but the biggest PA's, a good sound guy will mix stage spill with the PA to get the best overall sound possible. So the better your stage sound, the better your FOH sound will be. Too loud or too soft on stage, and it sounds horrible out front.There's a difference between full blown production and sound reinforcement (or PA support as you Americans seems to call it).
     
  16. I've always found it tough to get a good balance between the PA and the bass rig. This is due to the arrival time difference between the bass PA cabs which creates a comb filter effect. Unless your PA is equipped with some sort of delay feature (Rane x-over) You are better off having it all come from the stage or as much as possible coming from the PA. One alternative I've used that works well is to have the bass come from the PA cab on the opposite side of the stage from the bass cab. However, the PA must be setup stereo.