Stage volume vs PA

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by kev451, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. kev451

    kev451 Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2014
    New Jersey
    Funny you “perfect” in quotations as if I stated I’m perfect. Sigh...the usual sarcasm with no real advice thanks anyway.
  2. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Suspended Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    There was advice, and there wasnt any sarcasm. But, whatever dude. Everyone here gave you great advice, but you dont want it. Goodbye.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    gumtown and Aqualung60 like this.
  3. 9 and 7 mean nothing.
    There is no correlation between where the knob points and how much power you are running.
    And to compare knob positions on two different amps? :rollno:

    The pointers only help you get the settings back to a place where you want them to be next time.
    Nothing is calibrated.

    The most useful information that a knob will give you is:
    When it’s all the way down, you can’t go any lower.
    When it’s all the way up, you can’t go any higher.

    I can do that without knobs. Just can’t see it from a few feet away.

    I once took the knobs off the guitar players amp and put them back on in the wrong positions.
    He absolutely refused to adjust them for the correct sound/level.
    They are pointed where they are always pointed so his amp must be broken.
  4. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    And tilted back towards their head.

    Actually, you should be able to put the guitar players' amps in front of them, tilted back, like stage monitors and let the FOH handle the mix, creating less stage volume instead of more.

    How you hear it, on stage, is not the way to determine how good or bad your group sounds FOH.
    Omega Monkey likes this.
  5. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    OP, where in New Jersey are you? Maybe a local TBr get out to one of your gigs.

    Btw, thank you for your service. :thumbsup:
  6. kev451

    kev451 Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2014
    New Jersey
    Really there was advice ? All I saw was if you were perfect...that being said everyone else had offered try this or try that have you thought of this you can’t with that...see my a Don’t get upset because I merely replied to your comment. You have yourself a great night also.
  7. kev451

    kev451 Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2014
    New Jersey

    I see your point. Touché
    Old Garage-Bander likes this.
  8. Remoman


    Mar 14, 2017
    This all presumes that the PA is good quality, set up in good location, and purpose built to well reproduce sound for all instruments and vocals, and even at that, because of that, it's not going to be as good as purpose built bass and guitar amplification. Remember the proper industry term is "live sound reinforcement". There is something to be said to get a decent stage sound for the musicians and that will likely cover an near field area in front of the stage in the area before the PA starts pushing things out towards the rest of the house. And unless you get that great PA and sound guy, who's going to walk around and adjust based on the total sound in different areas, live with people there, it's going to sound much different in different areas of the venue. Much like what @Bassbeater and @HolmeBass were talking about.

    But as to the OP's original need, yeah, getting a good stage sound has it's merits, but I doubt bigger guitar cabs are going to change the sound in a positive way for the the crowd. You're probably better off turning down like @Bassbeater said.
    HolmeBass likes this.
  9. Pulverizor


    Jun 14, 2018
    New Zealand
    Do they elevate their combo's when you play live?

    I don't think it's a good idea to compare the acoustics of a practise room to those of on stage, you'll never capture the same sound.
    chadds and HolmeBass like this.
  10. JKos

    JKos Supporting Member

    Oct 26, 2010
    Surprise, AZ
    OP, what happens when you try to get a good stage "mix" without the PA on?

    Most of which you have dismissed as your tone not possibly being part of the overall issue. That's where you are rubbing people the wrong way. Every time someone has suggested you do something to adjust, you say you are fine and not the problem.

    - John
  11. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Suspended Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices

    I told you to turn down, and turn the bass down. That's advice. I also said that if your total sound was perfect, you wouldn't have any problems. Because the straight utter truth of the matter is that those small speakered guitar amps can hold their own against any live drums if you weren't there. By themselves. And there's two of them. That puts you at the common denominator position in the equation. Any idiot can see that. And it seemed to me like you were the one who was getting upset. Because no one is agreeing with your idea that getting bigger amps is a better solution than you turning down. But, like I also said...whatever dude. Keep doing what you're doing, and keep getting the same results.
    Omega Monkey and Aqualung60 like this.
  12. Bassassin31


    Feb 4, 2014
    Baldwin, WI
    My quilter steelaire combo for my pedal steel has a 15 in it. Sounds killer when I piggy-back my RS210 Bass cab on it :)
    lz4005 likes this.
  13. Stumbo

    Stumbo Guest

    Feb 11, 2008
    Do you have any recordings?
    Kro likes this.
  14. bumperbass


    Jun 19, 2012
    ^^^This. It doesn't matter what speakers they use. They need SMALLER amps.
    Aqualung60 and MoeTown1986 like this.
  15. alaskaleftybass

    alaskaleftybass Will Hanbury, Jr. In Memoriam

    Mar 21, 2012
    Sitka, Alaska
    Omega Monkey likes this.
  16. Blaze Barlow

    Blaze Barlow

    Mar 8, 2018
    are you saying that you cant hear guitars well enough on stage or the guitars are not loud enough in the PA..?..most shows I remember..its never a problem hearing the guitars out most cases the guitars are at enough volume that they arent even in the PA..other stage mics are picking up the a certain amount of guitar is getting into the FOH mix anyway..I still am not sure whether you think the sound is not right on stage..or in the PA..or both..and..if you personally arent hearing enough guitar..add some in your stage are more often too much on stage rather than not enough..not having extra loud guitars on stage to kill your hearing is a blessing..not a curse..
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    Omega Monkey likes this.
  17. Philonius

    Philonius Supporting Member

    Mar 22, 2009
    2k W of the Duwamsh
    Oh my Kev, you really should consider that if virtually Everyone here is giving you the same advice, there is probably something to it.

    But that’s not why I’m here- I’m here to compliment you on the NYC subway token attached to the front of your amp.

    Admiral Akbar likes this.
  18. Blaze Barlow

    Blaze Barlow

    Mar 8, 2018
    what you say is basically true..but the big difference is that the positioning of the speaker boxes at rehersal is usually never the same as on a live live performances the boxes all face outward..this cant always be reproduced at a rehersal room placement..and accoustics are always going to be different..
    Wisebass and Coolhandjjl like this.
  19. Chango Malo

    Chango Malo

    Apr 8, 2017

    well, somethin' ain't right, bubba. If in three years with a whole buncha slider monkeys and different PA's all sound bad in the same way i'm goin' out onna limb and say FOH ain't the problem. I'll even guess it ain't the guitar volume either.

    You haven't had a bad sound guy at every place you've played for the past 3 years. Have the two guitar players tilt back their amps so they're pointed at their ears and then turn down until you can hear the guitars. Let the PA do the heavy lifting. Your audience will thank you.
  20. I'm far from an expert, but usually I:
    • set guitar (Blues Jr and Princeton Reverb Reissue) and bass (Traynor SB500 with 210 cab) amps to sweet spot for tone that each player is after, make minor adjustments to their volume and location / position / tilt to achieve desired stage mix, then mic the guitar combos and mic or DI the bass to the PA;
    • run keys, vocals and drums to the PA;
    • adjust stage monitor levels so each player gets their desired mix; then,
    • mix the mains for output to the venue.
    When I get it right, then:
    • stage mix is balanced and stage volume levels low enough that I can talk to another player without yelling;
    • everyone in the venue can hear the music loud enough to rock out without complaint; and,
    • no one in the venue gets hit with laser beam volume from stage amps.
    That seems to work for 40 - 400 seat venues, but - like I said - I'm far from expert ...
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    kev451 likes this.
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