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stealing music,etc...

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by 4 stringed fury, Sep 30, 2008.


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  1. hbarcat

    hbarcat Supporting Member

    Aug 24, 2006
    Rochelle, Illinois


    Copying music is not theft. It is not stealing.

    It is copyright infringement.

    It's still a criminal act but misrepresenting it as the quite different criminal act of theft only impedes any possible progress toward solving the problem of how to ensure that creative individuals get paid for their ideas.

    And I don't make illegal copies of music- I make sure the artists get paid for the music I listen to.
     
  2. Armueller2001

    Armueller2001

    Sep 19, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    Is it still "stealing" if you download a CD that you wouldn't have purchased in the first place? To the band it's a potential gained fan rather than a lost revenue..
     
  3. To the band, you just acquired a copy of an album they put a lot of effort into without paying them for it.

    Mike
     
  4. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    If a lot of people do it, then it makes it okay? That's bully mentality. Just because every kid in a school beats up on one kid doesn't make it right. Just because there's no way they'll stop illegal downloading, it doesn't make it right.
     
  5. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    If you are in possession of their music, then you should have paid for it. They are out the money they should have gotten for it. If it's in your hands, then money should be in theirs- it's very simple. If you weren't going to buy it to begin with, then you simply don't get to have the music- it also means they have one less person out there promoting the theft of their property.
     
  6. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    It is speaking. It's saying "Jonyak doesn't know how to comprehend me" :D
     
  7. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    Arrogant is just a word people use for the fact that I know how awesome I am.

    Look, what this all boils down to is that the internet has made it much easier to disseminate intellectual property that was once relatively guarded against such actions. But the fact that it is made easy doesn't make it right.

    When I taught high school physics, I wrote a large number of labs, including some on commission for publication. The ones I wrote for my own class were available to my students on my website. A couple different times I had students (my own or others) email or tell me that another teacher was using my lab word for word, sometimes going so far as to edit it and pass it off as their own. Now, the reality is that if they'd asked I would have gave permission as long as credit was given. But no one asked me for use of something I created.

    Just because ease of illegal distribution changes dramatically doesn't change the legality of the act. Again, you want to argue morality as being hazy, undefined and changing. I simply don't subscribe to that idea. Knowingly taking someone else's intellectual property without permission or compensation is wrong. How can you say otherwise?
     
  8. Jonyak

    Jonyak

    Oct 2, 2007
    Ottawa, Ont
    ok... so you don't know where in the world it isn't considered moraly low to steal.

    maybe I am a gypsy.

    I dunno how else to take that. seems pretty cut and dry to me what you are saying here.
     
  9. MakiSupaStar

    MakiSupaStar The Lowdown Diggler

    Apr 12, 2006
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Fair enough. I stand corrected.
     
  10. Jonyak

    Jonyak

    Oct 2, 2007
    Ottawa, Ont
    I don't think anyone has argued that it is "right" to take it.
     
  11. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    Knock knock.
    Who's there?
    Butter.
    Butter who?
    Butter let me in.

    There must be someone knocking at the door who wants to come in. I don't know how else to take that.

    Then again, you've taken Gypsies to be a particular ethnic group, which their not. The word gypsy lends itself to a term given to any nomadic group that fits gypsy stereotypes (like honor in theft). Gypsies aren't a race.
     
  12. Human Bass

    Human Bass

    Aug 26, 2005
    The fact is that society as a whole doesnt consider downloading music something wrong. The music industry will have to adapt to that, its the new dynamic of the market.
     
  13. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    If what you're saying was true, it would no longer be called illegal downloading. I think it's a rather small percentage of our country that illegally downloads with regularity, and an even smaller percentage that thinks it is not wrong. Even most of the illegal downloaders in this thread acknowledge that they are stealing. And I'm not in favor of a society that considers stealing to okay. The fact that lots of people are doing it has no bearing on that.
     
  14. bassaficionado6

    bassaficionado6 Something about gumption

    Jan 7, 2008
    Napa, CA
    No it's still stealing, or more accurately copyright infringment as hbarcat corrected.

    The fact that they gained another fan has no relevence to whether or not you took what was not rightfully yours to take.
     
  15. OK - I was mildly interesting in this discussion, then Jonyak started expressing his "point" and, like passing a horrific car accident, I couldn't stop looking...

    After proudly declaring that he indeed does download music without paying for it, he also declares;

    #22
    BOTH statements he'd prove with his own words to be utterly false.
    No sooner than 4 posts later, the first rationalization appears:

    #26 (Rat. 1)
    #36 (Rat. 2, 3)
    And then this one although later claiming this was meant in jest...

    #47 (Rat. 4, 5, 6, 7)
    #53 (Rat. 8, 9, 10, 11)
    #56 (Rat. 12)
    #64 (Rat. 13)
    ...now he's dragging luthiers and lovers into the fray...

    #70 (Rat. 14, 15)
    In an ironic turn of events, he's rationalizing his rationalizing.

    #82 (Rat. 16)
    At this point - a total of 16 rationalizations.

    The whole time claiming some deranged version of righteousness based on his sense that old people (over 40) are simply out of touch with the technological times and filled hypocrisy and moral superiority passing judgment on him for his admittedly criminal and unapologetic behavior.

    After finally, begrudgingly and patronizingly "admitting" the truth about himself;

    #82
    Had you just said THAT to begin with, none of the rest of that irrational rationalizing or vitriol would have even been necessary.
     
  16. TheXym

    TheXym

    Oct 19, 2006
    tZer for the win. Nice recap as well for those who haven't read the whole thread, well done. I need to buy you a beer sometime.
     
  17. Jonyak - Think what you will, but you opened the door wide and continued to throw fuel on the fire. Your blatant inability to see where your own comments were betraying you was almost funny, if it wasn't so pathetic. You could have easily made some half-way relevant points, but instead chose to attack those who choose NOT to download.

    If you admit you do something that you know to be wrong, then spend countless lines trying to rationalize it - especially after brazenly declaring you wouldn't do so and turning those with other opinions into "racists" and hypocrites - you cannot expect everyone to just sit here and take it. Your opinion is one thing - your irrational defense of an indefensible position, name-calling and blame-casting is pretty troll-like.
     
  18. MakiSupaStar

    MakiSupaStar The Lowdown Diggler

    Apr 12, 2006
    Huntington Beach, CA
    It's ok to admit you got pwn'd.
    iChatImage3546408473.
     
  19. Well, if more and more people do it, making it harder to enforce and the general populace begins to accept it as the norm, it's not trolling.....right? Fluid standards make everything OK.

    Mike
     
  20. Jonyak

    Jonyak

    Oct 2, 2007
    Ottawa, Ont
    when did I attack anyone?

    all I was trying to do was show people that they should not judge lest they be judged.

    I was called a gypsy... thats a ethnic or racial slur, whatever you want to call it. its a s bad as calling someone a fag.. or saying you have been jewed by someone.

    I never cast blame on anyone... I never called anyone a name before I was called a name. I never attacked those that choose to not download.
     

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