1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  

stealing music,etc...

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by 4 stringed fury, Sep 30, 2008.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. baalroo

    baalroo

    Mar 24, 2008
    Wichita, KS
    But see, this is where the confusion lies... because it IS subjective.

    I have yet to see an argument that doesn't boil down to "well, I want to charge money for a product with little to no monetary value."

    I understand that at one point in time it cost a ****load of money to record and distribute an album and thus it made since to charge $10-$20 for an album, but that is no longer the case. Being a late adopter to a new status quo is often frustrating and many times leads people to feel like they're getting "ripped off" or "cheated," but when most of the bands I listen to share their music readily and I have first hand knowledge of how cheap and easy it is to make quality recordings and distribute them online, I really have little sympathy for someone who wastes exorbitant amounts of cash on something that is no longer commercially viable and then boo-hoos when they make no money with their 1980s approach to the industry.
     
  2. msquared

    msquared

    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    I've paid for mass duplication of CDs. It don't cost the record company $14 per disc to replace one.
     
  3. BassyBill

    BassyBill The smooth moderator... Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 12, 2005
    West Midlands UK
    It wouldn't cost the Ford Motor Company £15,000 to replace my car if I trashed it - but that's what they'd charge.
     
  4. bassaficionado6

    bassaficionado6 Something about gumption

    Jan 7, 2008
    Napa, CA
    That's ture but people don't normally insure their CD's against damage, other than the 30 day return policies at stores. But the argument could be made for other items like a lamp, or a clock or a plate, I suppose.
     
  5. msquared

    msquared

    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    Your analogy will not become relevant to this discussion until matter compilers are invented.
     
  6. baalroo

    baalroo

    Mar 24, 2008
    Wichita, KS
    this is getting into derailment territory but:
    If you got a new ford straight from the factory and they neglected to put an engine in it I guarantee they WOULD replace that. I've bought A LOT of CDs over the years (aprox 1200 or so) and I can attest that at least 2-3% (an admittedly acceptable amount) of them have come straight out of the shrinkwrap with major defects, and it is a HUGE hassle to try and get them replaced.

    again, pretty much completely irrelevant to the conversation, but true.
     
  7. msquared

    msquared

    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    Obviously because of all of the terrorists who download music.

    And Hitler.
     
  8. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    Song Surgeon slow downer. https://tinyurl.com/y5dcuqjg
    But talent is priceless. If everyone could have a hit song, they would. What you're doing by paying for music is supporting the guy who wrote it. If you wrote a song and paid your bills with the income, how would you feel about someone stealing your music?
     
  9. BassyBill

    BassyBill The smooth moderator... Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 12, 2005
    West Midlands UK
    Yeah, I was being flippant before. Sorry about that. It's just that I thought it was a bit naive to expect a store to allow you to replace a damaged CD for free or cheap (unless it's defective out of the box, of course). People do try and charge you for things if they think they can. So what else is new?

    On topic - my point about walking into the store and ripping CDs to your hard drive was only made to answer those who think that downloading is somehow not theft because you're making a copy and not depriving someone of the original. We could argue about the morality of this, but the law regards intellectual property as - well, property. In the eyes of the law downloading is illegally taking someone's property, whether the original remains or not.
     
  10. msquared

    msquared

    Sep 19, 2004
    Kansas City
    The fact that the music industry, whether they like it or not, is now operating in the same paradigm as the software industry.
     
  11. GregC

    GregC Johnny and Joe Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 19, 2007
    Chicago
    Are you joking?
     
  12. Godwin's Rule


    :bag:
     
  13. baalroo

    baalroo

    Mar 24, 2008
    Wichita, KS
    Not in the slightest. When you buy a used CD the original artist gets NOTHING at all from the deal. It is still their intellectual property and someone OTHER THAN THEM is selling it to you for a profit. Basically, someone else (the music store) is profiting off of the artists music and the artist doesn't see a penny. How is this not as bad as downloading the album?
     
  14. BassyBill

    BassyBill The smooth moderator... Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 12, 2005
    West Midlands UK
    Fair enough. On the side issue of replacing damaged CDs, maybe the stores should reflect that. We could start a campaign.

    On the main issue of piracy, of course, music companies and software companies seem to have a pretty similar spectrum of opinion.
     
  15. Jared Lash

    Jared Lash Born under punches

    Aug 21, 2006
    Denver, CO
    Again, if you want to argue pricing, then that's a legitimate debate. Obviously, the real value of recorded music is not reflected in today's CD prices. The price increases of the last few years certainly seem to reflect a desire for record companies to recoup some of their losses by overcharging people who still do buy music legally.

    But, that's not the question at hand. Just because you CAN violate copyright law (which is really the crime here, not stealing) and get music for free doesn't equate to the claim that it no longer has monetary value.

    All you have to do is extend this concept to other areas of intellectual property to see it as a facetious argument. Music is one area where the model can change and have what was once a product (physical recordings) become a marketing tool, in this case to sell merchandise and concert tickets.

    But for other industries this falls apart. If the idea were to be adopted by everyone (including businesses) that software dowloading is also ok or if all books were available online for someone to read or print out themselves, then where is the motivation for continued development in either area?
     
  16. GregC

    GregC Johnny and Joe Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 19, 2007
    Chicago
    Someone already bought that particular CD new and the artist made money from it then. That person then sold the CD to a store at a fraction of its original price (where you bought it) and no longer owns it. Not even remotely close to file sharing.
     
  17. AlphaMale

    AlphaMale

    Oct 30, 2006
    Ventura County
    I'm not stealing money. I don't gain any money.
    That also assumes I would have bought the album. Sorry I wouldn't have. I'd probably borrow them from the library, honestly. Some Good jazz and classical there. (Stravinsky and Herbie Hancock's HeadHunters)
     
  18. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    Connecticut
    I'm sorry, but who the hell are you to tell someone else what they can and can't charge for their own work? They can charge a million dollars for their CDs. Whether they sell or not is their business. Just because it doesn't fit the price guideline you want it to doesn't mean you're entitled to any part of it.

    There's little money to be made in the art industry. A couple years ago, the national yearly mean pay for a painter was $500. It is not commercially viable for almost anyone to be a painter. Yet if I saw some POS making illegal prints of paintings because they thought trying to sell the painting was an outdated and overpriced method, I'd be the first to call the cops/take a bat to them. Anyone who tries to justify themselves otherwise is simply a worthless thief.

    It is NOT subjective. You are taking something that is not yours that you neither need nor have a right to. The only way you should be in possession of an artist's music that they intended to sell is if you paid for it. Intellectual property is just that- PROPERTY. The artist owns the original and any copy made of it. Taking it in any disallowed form is theft, and it's morally and ethically bankrupt behavior, no matter what excuse one comes up with.
     
  19. Deluge Of Sound

    Deluge Of Sound Banned

    Nov 8, 2007
    Maine/Vermont
    I do it to sate my addiction to music. If someone tells me to check out band X, I'll either buy the cd, or, if cash is tight, download the album, give it a thorough listen, and the either delete it or buy it.

    The way I look at it is the same way as borrowing a cd from a friend. If I dig it, I'll support the band and buy the album, go to the show, etc. If I don't like it, I delete it after I listen to it. There's no reason to not buy the album if you like it, but there's no reason to buy an album you'll end up hating, either.
     
  20. Armueller2001

    Armueller2001

    Sep 19, 2006
    Dallas, TX
    In your opinion...

    Meh.
     

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.