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stuck in a rut

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by nate 0 jt, Mar 4, 2001.


  1. I seem to have a problem with my playing, i am constantly stuck in using the 1, 2, 4, 5, flat 7, and 8 of the chord i am working from. Does anyone have any pointers on how i can expand my playing? it would be greatly appreciated. thanks
     
  2. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Can you be more specific about the context of what you are doing? Do you mean for accompanying or soloing, or both? What style of music are you playing? It makes a difference.
     
  3. i was stuck in a rut once, but then i put it into four wheel drive.

    it sounds like you are playing a box pattern
    i.e. probally using your first and third fingers.
    do you know any scales, using a third more might help or a major seventh. if you do know scales maybe trying not to play them in one hand position. or work on two octave scales. like chris asked can you give some more info.
     
  4. like you said i just play in a box pattern all the time. i am mostly playing funk, but i do play jazz, latin, and a combination of any or all three. I mostly play finger style(thats where i have most of my problem) but i do tap and slap/pop. Finger style is really the only time i have problems like this. I just need some pointers on how to incorporate other notes of the scales. Also, do you know any sites with information about modes. I know a few but not all them. thanks agian. Oh yea, i do use my 1st and 3rd finger most of the time.
     
  5. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    Learn your major and minor position scales for starters. Even the pentatonics use the third extensively in both major and minor. I suspect that at least from this you would learn that the 3rd would fit in a lot of cases where you are currently using the 2nd degree. Learning the difference between those two colors would be a good start.
     
  6. bsplyr54

    bsplyr54 Guest

    Mar 3, 2001
    Champaign, IL
    heres a quick review on modes, if you take a C major scale, just start on which ever scale degree you want (1st- ionian, 2nd- dorian, 3rd- phygrian, 4th- lydian, 5th- mixolydian, 6th- aeolian, and 7th- locrian) and find the next 7 natural notes in succession (no sharps or flats) ( ex. D dorian DEFGABC). This will give you the shape of each mode, which you can transpose into any key. Or you can look at it in terms of intervals, any major (ionian) scale is (wwhwwwh), where w is a whole step and h is a half step. Just start on the degree you want, and for each scale just start on the corresponding interval ( Ionian- wwhwwwh, Dorian- whwwwhw, phygrian- hwwwhww, lydian- wwwhwwh, mixolydian- wwhwwhw, aeolian- whwwhww, and locrian- hwwhwww. Aeolian is the natural minor, so for harmonic minor you raise the 6th and for melodic minor you raise the 6th and the 7th. Hope this helps.
    -paul
     
  7. can't really add to what chris and bsplyr54 said except maybe to pick up a book on scales. you don't need to know every scale but major, minor and penatonic should help you break out of box playing.
     
  8. so what your saying is that if i were to play a c dorian; starting on c and play whwwwhw, it would be a c dorian mode, correct? is that clear? hopefully. thanks
     
  9. i think i was wrong. if i wanted to play a c dorian then i would start on D and play whwwwhw. is that right or was i right the first time? thanks again
     
  10. bsplyr54

    bsplyr54 Guest

    Mar 3, 2001
    Champaign, IL
    what you are talking about is close. It would be a c dorian in the key of Bb. you see, if you start on c, and use a dorian mode, you are crewating that scale on the 2nd degree of a Bb major sale (Bb C D Eb F G A Bb). And a D dorian wuold start on D and be in the key of C ( 2nd degree of Cmaj CDEFGABC). hope this helps.
    -paul
     
  11. If i were to play in the key of C major, and play a C dorian, I would play DEFGABC with no sharps or flats. (start on the 2nd(D) note in the C scale and end on the 8th(C)) is that anywhere right?
     
  12. C dorian is a Bb major scale with all its sharps and flats. Am i on the right track?
     
  13. sounds good to me nate, here is another thing that helps, play a scale on one string, take C on the 3rd fret of the A string and play it only on the A string till you reach the C at the 15th fret.
    ok you bassicly have just outlined the "root" note of each mode. i.e. play a C major scale, then play a D dorian scale and so on. you should be able to play each scale with no flats or sharps till you get to the 15th fret. does that make sense?

    tell me if that makes sense and i am sure all of us can come up with more tips
     
  14. bsplyr54

    bsplyr54 Guest

    Mar 3, 2001
    Champaign, IL
    yes you are very close. play a major Bb scale. youll find that the seccond note, or degree, is C. Generallt speaking, the major scale you play will dictate what key you are in. so you are in the key of Bb. For any major scale, if you build the scale off of the second degree the scale is Dorian. The intervals for a dorian scale are whwwwhw. so If you build a dorian scale with the root note C, using those intervals, you are playing a C dorian scale. And you are in the Key of Bb, because C is the second ( or dorian) degree of Bb major scale. So, in summary, if whatever note you start any scale on, gets the letter name of the scale ( i.e. C dorian starts on C, D dorian starts on D, C phygrian starts in C, etc). The modal name ( ionian, dorian, etc) is given by which ever scale degree it is on ( 1st ionian, 2nd dorian, 2rd phygrian, etc). tHe interval corresponds to the mode ( ionian- wwhwwwh, dorian- whwwwh, etc). The example of Cmaj I gave you was just a way to teach you what it looks like on the bass, without dealing with any sharps or flats. So whenever you want any scale, just start on that note, and play the intervals of which ever mode you want. thats the easiest way to do it. the scale dgress and keys are just the theory behind it. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
    -paul
     
  15. an F Mixolydian would be a C# major scale starting on the 5th note of and F major scale, right?
     
  16. now then lets say i am jamming with a buddy and he is playing an A chord over and over again. if i wanted to play an A dorian i would start on A and play whwwwhw. would that be the dorian mode?
     
  17. bsplyr54

    bsplyr54 Guest

    Mar 3, 2001
    Champaign, IL
    yes correct. However, eventhough it is good to know all the modes, and you did not waste any time learning them, the only ones commonly used are ionian, dorian, mixolydian, and aeolean.
     
  18. depends on the chord. say he is playing a A minor chord. yes you could play in A dorian. i.e. ABCDEFGA. just like C major but starting on the A, no sharps or flats. one thing i like to do in this case is play my "fills" up a minor third, or in C major. this helps the fill stand out more against his Amin chord, but yet still sounds right.
     
  19. bsplyr54

    bsplyr54 Guest

    Mar 3, 2001
    Champaign, IL
    you were right about the A dorian, but an F mixolydian, would sart on F and be in the Key of Bb ( a Bb major scale is Bb C D Eb F G A Bb). just use the intervals of Mixolydian from the root note F
     
  20. now then lets say i was playing an F mixolydian, it would be in the key of Cmaj, correct? now lets say that my guitarist is playing Cmaj chords, i would play an F mixolydian scale, right? i found a site that gives you the shape each mode in a Cmaj scale. would the shapes be the same in all keys? i think i finally got it, tell me if im wrong. thanks for all your help.