Double Bass Student double bass versus non-student double bass

There’s a distinction to be made between basses that are primarily going to be used for orchestral/solo arco repertoire and basses that are going to be used for plucked/pizz repertoire (Jazz, bluegrass, etc.). A carved instrument is always preferred for the former use, even for students.

For the latter, in an ideal world most players will prefer a hybrid or carved bass, but it is not a requirement and the other players in the band likely won’t care as long as the player can play and the instrument is set up well. As an example, Christian McBride has twice contacted me to use my laminate LaScala while playing shows in town. The first time, I offered him the option of using my hybrid, and he declined after playing a few notes on the ply. Eddie Gomez, when visiting my school, turned down both of these basses offered in favor of the plywood Shen teaching bass in my office purely because it had lighter strings and that was his priority. Lynn Seaton and John Goldsby always chose that same bass to use while in town for the same reasons. If the bass is well set up and maintained, it can easily function as a “professional” bass in these settings, and often does.
Egg Zachary.
 
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Wishes, fairy dust, Unicorn farts? How does that go again? @damonsmith I’m not arguing with you and don’t expect in a million years we will agree. All things equal, sure I want every serious student to have a carved bass, but things are never equal. I would never recommend a family buy a carved bass with problems such as a warped neck, overly thin fingerboard, neck joint glued with epoxy. I also don’t want them to buy a bass from a music store that doesn’t know how to set up basses. Just today, I had a nice Shen Willow on the bench to fit an extension. The bass came from a music store which won the school bid. The soundpost was dangerously tight, fingerboard never dressed, and the bridge was cut down with almost no arch. Killed the day. And this is a quality bass. Imagine what some of that music store’s cheap basses are like? I recently did a neck reset on a low end carved bass and there was at least a half inch air gap at the cheeks. The damage blew out the rib and a good portion of the upper back. The hot melt glue was a mess to deal with as well. We’re talking a $4,000 bass here. And yea, I had a customer bring one in to compare to a Shen laminate. Player, parent, teacher and me all thought the Shen sounded better. The teacher has been a high school orchestra teacher and private teacher for over twenty years. We’re not talking Bluegrass thumper here. The Middle School kid will have a well made instrument to drag around, maybe abuse and enjoy for many years. As he advances, he can either keep the ply or have some trade value toward a good carved instrument.
Well, first of all it doesn't change what the term means. Second, it is a pretty far fetched story story since a decent hybrid could have and should have also entered the picture.
Anyone with a more than basic understanding of the instrument understands that the "sound" is not and has never been the issue with ply basses (except at the bow change). It is the behavior of the instrument that translates into how much energy needs to be put in to get it to project.

I would also argue that getting your bass fixed and set up right is part of a serious study of the instrument.
 
As an example, Christian McBride has twice contacted me to use my laminate LaScala while playing shows in town. The first time, I offered him the option of using my hybrid, and he declined after playing a few notes on the ply. Eddie Gomez, when visiting my school, turned down both of these basses offered in favor of the plywood Shen teaching bass in my office purely because it had lighter strings and that was his priority. Lynn Seaton and John Goldsby always chose that same bass to use while in town for the same reasons. If the bass is well set up and maintained, it can easily function as a “professional” bass in these settings, and often does.
Wow! I would spend part of my day just staring at my basses if any of that group of bass royalty played on them.
 
Well, first of all it doesn't change what the term means. Second, it is a pretty far fetched story story since a decent hybrid could have and should have also entered the picture.
Anyone with a more than basic understanding of the instrument understands that the "sound" is not and has never been the issue with ply basses (except at the bow change). It is the behavior of the instrument that translates into how much energy needs to be put in to get it to project.

I would also argue that getting your bass fixed and set up right is part of a serious study of the instrument.
Not sure what to make of your ‘far fetched’ comment other than honestly relate my experience. Hybrid? We all compared a Shen laminate to a carved bass from another place and the teacher and parent chose the Shen. It’s a Middle School kid. Really……. I’m done here.
 
What are the things that determine a bass is a “student” bass? I suppose a 1/4 or 1/2 size might be a big indicator? But what else? Cheaper hardware? Finger board material?

What are the drawbacks of student basses? Advantages?
Like other's have written, "student bass" is a marketing term. Marketing is for sales, hence the answers are about economics, not artistry. IMO.

- What are the things that determine a bass is a “student” bass? - Lowest / lower Price point.

- I suppose a 1/4 or 1/2 size might be a big indicator? - yes small basses for growing children would/should be student at low price.

- Cheaper hardware? - yes.

- Finger board material? - cheaper wood, yes, like other woods oiled and painted black to look like ebony etc

- What are the drawbacks of student basses? - You get what you pay for, they are not as responsive musically.

- Advantages? - They are easier to buy (less $) and easier to sell ( less $ and more potential buyers) if the student doesn't continue with the instrument. Usually built tougher physically and can take more smacks before showing damage. Damage that does show, often doesn't affect performance in significant ways. (built tougher coincides with built less musically responsive)
 
to me it is the neck. a true student model will have a less substantial neck, as well as be a laminate bass. Like an Engelhardt. They are basses that are suitable to learn basic skills on but will hold you back eventually and won't hold up to more professional standards. IMO a hybrid or carved bass does not fall into this category, as they should hold up to professional endeavors. A college student should not be playing a "student" bass IMO, as they should have professional level gear. And my bar for professional grade seems lower than most here. A hybrid Shen is professional grade in my eyes.
 
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I have traveled a fair bit, and in Central/South America if I am offered a Shen ply with Spiros to play my shows on in that city, I am more than thrilled. Same in the states, although I usually drive to regional gigs here. John Goldsby even recorded several live albums here using a borrowed SB100 with Weichs that he brought from Germany like 15 years ago that I have never bothered to change out. It’s the mechanic more than the brand of tool.
 
Like other's have written, "student bass" is a marketing term. Marketing is for sales, hence the answers are about economics, not artistry. IMO.

- What are the things that determine a bass is a “student” bass? - Lowest / lower Price point.

- I suppose a 1/4 or 1/2 size might be a big indicator? - yes small basses for growing children would/should be student at low price.

- Cheaper hardware? - yes.

- Finger board material? - cheaper wood, yes, like other woods oiled and painted black to look like ebony etc

- What are the drawbacks of student basses? - You get what you pay for, they are not as responsive musically.

- Advantages? - They are easier to buy (less $) and easier to sell ( less $ and more potential buyers) if the student doesn't continue with the instrument. Usually built tougher physically and can take more smacks before showing damage. Damage that does show, often doesn't affect performance in significant ways. (built tougher coincides with built less musically responsive)
It isn't really a marketing term and it is not what is described above at all. As I have said, it is a term pros and teachers use for the most basic instrument that won't hold you back from seriously studying the instrument - which includes and implies arco study. It means a basic but solid workshop instrument, generally means carved or hybrid with a good set up. it also implies pedigree or the location it was made probably isn't figuring into the cost. It also matters just as much how it plays as how it sounds. These days it probably describes something in the 2-4K range.

The semantics can get confusing since it does not mean the very cheap instruments young students tend to get stuck with and further confusing because pros regularly make do with less.
Still, it is a term that is used in the world and does have a meaning.
 
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It isn't really a marketing term and it is not what is described above at all. As I have said, it is a term pros and teachers use for the most basic instrument that won't hold you back from seriously studying the instrument - which includes and implies arco study. It means a basic but solid workshop instrument, generally means carved or hybrid with a good set up. it also implies pedigree or the location it was made probably isn't figuring into the cost. It also matters just as much how it plays as how it sounds. These days it probably describes something in the 2-4K range.

The semantics can get confusing since it does not mean the very cheap instruments young students tend to get stuck with and further confusing because pros regularly make do with less.
Still, it is a term that is used in the world and does have a meaning.
Okay.
 
I have traveled a fair bit, and in Central/South America if I am offered a Shen ply with Spiros to play my shows on in that city, I am more than thrilled. Same in the states, although I usually drive to regional gigs here. John Goldsby even recorded several live albums here using a borrowed SB100 with Weichs that he brought from Germany like 15 years ago that I have never bothered to change out. It’s the mechanic more than the brand of tool.
15 year-old Spiro Weich ... ooohhh, cooties!
 
I have traveled a fair bit, and in Central/South America if I am offered a Shen ply with Spiros to play my shows on in that city, I am more than thrilled. Same in the states, although I usually drive to regional gigs here. John Goldsby even recorded several live albums here using a borrowed SB100 with Weichs that he brought from Germany like 15 years ago that I have never bothered to change out. It’s the mechanic more than the brand of tool.

How could I change them after you, Lynn, Gene Perla, and Eddie Gomez had played them? Those things are like holy relics!
You got Lynn to play Spirocores? He insists on Zyex Lights, but did tell me he was fine with a Shen Ply.