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Suicide By Weaponized Sound

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Markamb1, Nov 8, 2018.


  1. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    CFC05479-1C26-4916-A78D-F84EFEA45B15. 04DFB58A-AF7D-48CE-B5E0-FD4E8E275D1F. 5522ABDA-7661-4B4F-BFAB-BC1B813141AA. F62355AF-09A8-44CF-BACE-F1DD4311FEEA. 174D51D4-25AC-42C5-9B09-F8C1BEC6A77C. Ok so this isn’t about bass but I just posted this elsewhere for the first time, I’m not going to link from this site to another... and I know I’m not the only guitarist/bassist here. To make it a little more about bass can someone refer me to a psycho equivalent of a bass amp.... all tube dual mono block bass amp?

    Suicide by Weaponized Sound. MarshallWMD

    Just finished cleaning up a Marshall 9200 and would like to run the Jmp1 with it. I have the 9100 too but waiting to clean it up to compare compression curve among other things later.

    I have a few questions about signal path but first I’ll give you some idea of what I’m thinking.

    I bought these because they are unique and one of the only good looking Power Amplifiers because They don’t look like computer equipment for predicting weather.

    Dual mono block meant I could do a lot of different things at once. The first thing that came to mind was tube testing side by side instantaneously back and forth or simultaneously. Preamp and power. Same type, different brands... NOS vs New. Also thought I could test different types of power tubes...El34 vs Kt88s. I have kt88s in my jcm800 but I’ve never had anything else... I switched without even trying the el34s. Stupid I know but Corgan was gospel. Lol

    I believe I will have to be able to bias them separately for this. Please chime in with what you know. Is it possible for this amp? I’m fairly certain the entire amp is completely separate from one side to the other. I know they will need separate bias just wondering if this amp is capable. Any amp is...just a matter of time and money.... like my friend use to say.... anything is portable if you’re willing and able to carry it.

    For some reason even the stock tubes barely fit...well I’m guessing these are stock but they probably aren’t...jjs. Kt88s will need a higher ceiling which is ok because I will be making a custom enclosure for this chassis to make it look more like a traditional amp head. Maybe a deep yellow stained flame or curly maple playing off the gold face. Probably build it so that the Jmp sits well protected below the 9200 so that’s I can install a clear top window to see inside in addition to the front face window inside maybe some yellow leds to beam out if the tubes themselves don’t light up the interior space as I'm fairly sure they don’t do enough. Its too sexy in there to be sitting in the dark. I like the ominous glow of other amps that have employed lighting. I just want to make something beautiful for fun.

    I was also thinking of the advantage of having both kt88s and el34s running at the same time. I can test into separate cabs or separate sides of the same cab. Testing purposes are best left same cab separate sides. Performance would be separate cabs or if I wanted to be fully crazy I could try each side of the amp into each side of either cab. Giving each amps representation into each speaker type.

    I have uk 8 ohm vintage 30s in a Randall cab that is stereo capable, 4 ohms per channel stereo and 8 ohms mono

    Chinese 16 ohm Greenbacks in a peavy cab that is stereo capable,
    8 ohms per channel and 16 ohms mono

    Uk 8 ohm g12 65s in a jcm800 B cab that is mono only... I could convert but why it’s still stock. Have the jcm800 1983. This 9000 is just fun with the science of sound.

    So for all my imagination I’m still behind the curve when it comes to the technical side.... after mono...it gets a little more confusing than I can keep up with. I can’t find a good manual and I’m not entirely clear how I would hook up these various arrangements.

    Starting with the basics how should I be hooking this up with my Jmp into 9200, into an 8 ohm cab. I’m fairly sure but with this much power and cash in gear...I’d rather ask first.

    Jmp out from left or right...does it matter? Into input a or b power amp side then out of a or b output... strictly and respectively, into mono section of 8 ohm cab with the 9200s 8ohms switch slid into place. Option 1

    Jmp out from left and right into input A will the signal input A split the signal and send to each of the A outputs? If I hook up two 8 ohm cabs what is the resistance for the power amp setting? Option 2

    Jmp out from left and right into input A and B then out of both A and B outputs to 8 ohm cabs in mono... option 3

    Jmp out from left and right into input A and B and out of both outputs of both A and B into either side of separate cabs so that each type of speaker is represented by each tube type sending from the power amp. Example power amp A into one half of Vintage 30s and one half into Greenbacks and power amp B into one half vintage 30s one half Greenbacks. The crossover comes via the double outputs of both A and B. Option 4

    Last but definitely not least...

    Jmp1 out from both left and right into both A and B and one cab per power amp out that’s 4 cabs. We won’t even talk about mono vs crossing over to mix speaker types. Option 5

    I forgot the very last option... the Nuclear Bomb of the MarshallMonster....the WMD of WeaponizedSound.
    Buying another Jmp1 and hooking up both the 9100 and the 9200 in the arrangement above.... with 8 cabs...that’s 4 full stacks of stupidity.... and at least one man with bleeding ears and a serious concussion.... bludgeoned to death by his own Frankenstein Amp Monster....Suicide by Sound.

    Now to a logical extreme...probably somewhere within the first 4 options but anyone willing to amuse us all... how would each option work... am I close? My current cab arrangement without modifications are limiting... I would need to re wire the 16 ohm down to match my 8 ohms. The 9000 series only have 8 and 16... no choice for 4 but I feel like I don’t need it. Im sure I’m missing something in regards to ohms once I enter stereo...I’m almost too tired to think....I’m lost in my own insanity here. Tomorrow morning I have free sonic range of this house and I’d like to have some fun.

    Thanks in advance. I look forward to hearing from someone as crazy as me....just hope you know more than me. that shouldn’t be too hard. I wanted to keep an eye on the tubes so I’ve left the face and top off the amp.
     
  2. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    What exactly does this have to do with bass? And how is it that you have so much time on your hands?
     
  3. bearfoot

    bearfoot

    Jan 27, 2005
    schenectady, ny
    Album name of the day.
     
  4. Michedelic

    Michedelic MId-Century Modern

    Couldn’t you just be satisfied by a simple killed by death?
     
    basted and higain617 like this.
  5. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    Criminally, Sonically Insane.

    It’s basically about signal paths and ohms.

    Nothing from your perspective apparently but I have asked if there is an equivalent all tube dual mono block bass amp. I think there are more than just a few bass players who also play guitar. The knowledge bass (I actually typed that by mistake lol) necessary to answer these question is the same no matter what you play. I’m new and so far really like the people on TalkBass. So I decided to post this here as well.

    No matter what you play from the perspective of a musician, gear head, amp tech, sonic searcher... it’s a really interesting idea. I guess some people have never changed their own strings or considered that their tubes change their tone....or that their speakers will wildly effect their sound and presence...different brands, ages, usage, and sizes, cabinet material....open or closed... horned/ported. I’m not in that camp.

    As for time... I’ve simply made time... I’m uncontrollably curious... it comes at a cost. I’m not old enough to be retired but in a way I am. I’m taking the time to do all the things I never had the money to do and once I had the money never had the time to do. Besides... at the end of it there is quite a bit of opportunity to be had after amassing a considerable amount of knowledge. When it comes to developing a unique sound nothing could be more rewarding than a total sonic obsession. Starting with the study of the music and sounds that I know I love and then experimenting within and then beyond those parameters. Eventually taking an interest in recording.

    I’m obsessive and need to know everything about a subject. Simply playing has never been enough for me. I’ve talked about it elsewhere and while there are down sides to spending so much time on things other than practising and writing, there are too many upsides. Better, Fuller, more unique tone. Good sound is inspiring. Doing something that others or that most never do will usually afford you something that others or most never get. Sonic education is priceless. Knowing what you’re doing...godly.

    Should the opportunity to talk about such things be denied because it is not specifically related to the limits of the Bass Guitar frequencies of the very SAME subject. Sound/Music. The only thing separating us is frequencies....everything else still applies...and for many of us we are the full spectrum of the same thing. Guitar and bass guitarists. I’ve gained much because I play both. I’m actually reverting back to bass a bit. I started on bass...migrated to guitar and am now a much more interesting bass player having a lot of fun.

    Thanks for asking but the simple concept did not elude me, I was simply going above and beyond. If no one has any interest then no one will respond... it’s so out there that most wont anyway. Not to the extent of answering the questions asked anyway.

    Many will only see the simple distinction between bass and guitar and ask simple questions as a way of making simple statements...even though their input was voided and made unnecessary by my very own acknowledgment of this thread lacking an unnecessarily specific basis in the subject of basses. Lol.

    It’s basically about signal path and ohms.

    In a way this is about bass because I’m looking for this concept at the bass end of the spectrum. How else could I explain what I’m looking for than to explain exactly what I’m looking for, specifically the way I’m currently looking for it.

    I’m also curious if there is a bass equivalent to what I’m trying to do and if there is anyone out there in the land of Talk bass who is equally, sonically insane. Much to learn from my fellow crazies. Anytime someone starts a sentence about sonics with a negative statement like doesn’t or don’t or why... or the worst is just.... if someone tells me that it doesn’t make a difference and that I should just do this or that... I pretty much write them off because they don’t make a difference. Lol. PRS said that instruments are subtractive and that everything you Don’t do takes away from the absolute potential of a possibly perfect tone.

    Any other simple question statements?
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  6. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    Suicide by Sound was smoother but Suicide by Weaponized Sound was much more lots of double brutal. If you love Arnold Schwarzenegger’s movies check out Austrian death machine.

    Above and beyond my friend. Above and beyond.
     
  7. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    A better question might be who the hell has time to read my posts. Never mind who has time to read my replies. lollol
     
    sissy kathy likes this.
  8. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    Some other things I’ve said in other threads to much the same effect...actually better in some cases. I’d just like to talk to people who really THINK about sonics. Average people bore me, regardless of the subject. Listen to Paul Reed Smith talk about the rules of tone on you tube, he sounds a little insane.... but I’m watching him thinking this is everything I’ve been saying. If you sound crazy you probably know what you’re doing. The only real question is ..should you be doing it? Dangerous criteria but entertaining no matter what.

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  9. abarson

    abarson

    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Touche! Who indeed has time to read all this? (Well, actually I have).
    I'm not knocking your enthusiasm one iota, and sometimes the vocal inflection that changes the tone of a question is lost in text and emojis.

    I don't know about dual mono tube amps for bass, but Carvin did have the BX1500 and BX1600 dual mono solid state with tube preamp. Hartke Kilo was also dual mono, but again SS.
     
  10. see. An actual question.

    Afaik, which is a little but not a lot, there are a few vintage Mesa amps that were intended for home hifi market but they can kick some arse on bass, with a basic no control preamp that works with a bass plugged in direct if you like. 180w per side so a dual M180 but I think it was called Strategy 400.

    There was mention recently of some dual SVT's made for the Rolling Stones iirc, no photos so maybe someone's wishful imagination.

    Biamping bass is a big headache most of the time. It gets nasty with phase dropouts very easily.
     
  11. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    I suggest that you learn as much as you can about tube output stages, and what mixing tubes might have on biasing. Specifically dis-similar tube will have greatly different bias voltages, so what works for one tube type may not work for another. Most amps do not allow for individual biasing of tubes within a channel, so mixing tubes or tube pairs within a channel comes with some very real risks.
     
  12. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    I’m aware of the different power requirements for different tubes. I’m wondering about the ability to bias the them separately. Biasing not within a channel but a different bias per channel, per side. Each side has it’s own transformers...own tubes...I’m curious about where if anywhere do they share something other than a chassis. Obviously I’ll need the manual but furthermore the schematics.

    I’m going to revisit my original message and pull out the questions point for point. I’m not sure it was very clear. It was a lot of this is what I would do...is this right and only a few specific questions. Like I said it’s mostly signal path and ohms.
     
  13.  
  14. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    The amp must be rated to utilize whichever tubes being used. This may or may not be the case on a model by model basis, for things like heater current and bias range.
     
  15. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    I’ll look into it... I don’t think it would be a problem. So far I’ve never encountered that problem. That might be the case perhaps if I was trying to use a little combo amp that doesn’t use these types of power tubes. Not sure if there are any So small. They just use less tubes for lower power ratings. For guitar I only use older Marshall amps and newer ones modelled after basically the same design. So far anything that can run an el34 can run a kt88.
     
  16. LowFactor

    LowFactor

    Jul 6, 2018
    Nashville
    Not tube but a Lab Gruppen PLM 200000
    Would make a weaponized bass amp. 4 x 4800 watts at 2 ohms....
     
  17. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    Holy Hell! Found one putting out 20000watts for 12000 dollars. Tone Terrorists
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  18. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    You haven't looked into it far enough. The plate current curves are very different (but what do I know, right ;) )
     
  19. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018
    I know they are different and adjustments must be made. All I’m saying is that my Marshall’s, the jcm800 specifically is capable of both el34s and it kt88s. If that’s not what you mean. Then I’m just not sure I understand what you mean.
     
  20. Markamb1

    Markamb1

    Oct 24, 2018

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