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Summit Audio TD-100/DI thread (split from Ohio belchfest thread)

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by tombowlus, May 11, 2006.


  1. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I was about to mention that Sweetwater price! :)

    One other feature worth mentioning is that he TD-100 also has a phase switch, which I believe proved very beneficial with Chris' pickup (Fisman?).

    And I have to ad, that after a lengthy discussion with Jim Bergantino following this GTG and the Summit preamp in particular, it looks the Bergantino line driver will at least have the option of being even more "upright friendly" than was originally envisioned. :ninja: :bag:
     
  2. Random thoughts:

    Even at $450, the Summit Audio TD-100 is probably worth it. It's that good. Considering all the money most of us have already spent on basses and other gear, it doesn't seem that out of line to me. BTW Summit Audio has had an excellent reputation in the professional audio community for over 25 years. Their tube compressor is excellent and is something of a standard for many high-end recording studios. IIRC they worked with the legendary Deane Jensen on the design. Summit Audio = good stuff. At least the SA TD-100 is currently in production, unlike a certain much sought after speaker cabinet.

    Almost forgot, one of the surprises on Tuesday was Tom's LDS neo 1x8 3-way cab. The sound was quite impressive (at least to my ears) when it got hooked up with Chris playing his La Scala. Of course it's no Berg IP112, and the SPL potential is much more modest, but, for low volume, the LDS 1x8 sounded surprisingly good. I have one of these cabs that's for sale. I may have to reconsider that now.
     
  3. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    Other places have the Summits for 400-420. The Sweetwater price ain't "all that." :)

    samash.com - 400
    MF - 400
    fullcompass/amazon - 400
    vintageking.com - 420
    ...etc...
     
  4. Vic

    Vic There's more music in the nuance than the notes. Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2002
    Central Illinois
    Staff, Bass Gear Magazine
    I thought there was only the Summit Audio being talked about?
     
  5. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine

    PM sent, Martin. :)

    Vic is right, it was the Summit Audio TD-100 that everyone was raving about, but dangnabit, I really should have brought the Stewart, too. It's a great box with upright. The Stewart can be battery powered, the Summit cannot.

    Tom.
     
  6. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    here is an excerpt from the summit audio page....

    Q. Does the direct output pass through the tube stage?

    A. No, the direct out is just a loop from the input. However, the impedance control effects the instrument itself so any changes to the impedance will affect the sound you hear in your amp.

    that's the output you're supposed to use to drive the amp, it's on the front of the unit...

    my questions:
    1) is that the output you used during your tests?

    if yes then:
    2) wouldnt it be cheaper just to build a box with an in and and out and a control to vary impedeance since you're not using the tube stage of the summit audio?

    3) can this be easily done?
     
  7. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    No. We used the balanced output in the back directly into everything. Didn't use the front panel output at all.

    Yikes. Immortalized during my moment of utter sucktion. :eek:

    I take solace in knowing I made Chris look even more phenomenal in comparison.
     
  8. Tbeers

    Tbeers

    Mar 27, 2005
    Berlin
    The TD-100 has one input and 3 outputs (according to all the materials I have found on it).

    It has the "direct out" on the front, which is affected by the impedance control but does not go through the tube stage.

    It has a balanced 1/4" output on the back, which goes through the tube stage.

    It has a balanced XLR output on the back, which also goes through the tube stage.

    There are a few questions remaining. First, is the direct out on the front affected by the output gain knob? Second, why does Summit Audio recommend running the direct out into an amplifier? If I were using the unit, my instinct would be to use the balanced 1/4" output for my amplifier and the balanced XLR output for the PA. It is a little confusing the way they set it up. Can someone explain?
     
  9. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    if i read it correctly, the 1/4" out on the back is TRS, or tip, ring, sleeve, or 3 conductor... the typical instrument cable, and amplifier input is 2 conductor. i think that's why the front output drives the amp.

    uncletoad: why did you use the output on the back of the unit? any particular reason?

    did you notice generally that the summit audio sounded best with the impedance control set at 10 mohm, or max, or did it sound better in different places?

    if you noticed that the sound was the best in a position below the max setting, what happened to the sound when you continued to turn it up? did it get worse or did it just fail to improve anymore, thus having reached its best spot below 10 meg ohms, but still sounding good at 10?

    thanks

     
  10. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Your instinct is how I plan on using it. As I said we ran it straight out of the balanced jack on the back right into the Walter Woods and it sounded great. I have one coming to me soon so I'll put it though some gig paces and see how it holds up in the real world. I'll post what I find out.
     
  11. Uncletoad

    Uncletoad

    May 6, 2003
    Columbus Ohio
    Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
    Well I rarely read directions. I just mess with stuff the way it comes to me. Besides. Tom plugged it in that way first and who am I to argue with the gear whore.
    It sounded usable, great, and different in the middle of its throw plus or minus half the knob's range. There was a "sweet spot" that changed given what was plugged in and what was coming after the box.
    As I said it was darker and fatter with higher impedances and brighter and thinner with lower. Worse/Better depends on your taste.

    Keep in mind there is no majic box. No perfect must have thing. We were surprised at it and found that it was cool. I'm sure that something about it sucks, we just haven't spent enough time with it to find out what that is.
     
  12. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    thanks for the info..i think a huge part of getting a piezo to sound good is impedance matching... i've always gone with the 10 meg ohm solution, although it doesnt sound so great on my raven labs, it sounds great on the fishman platinum. i've seen specs on here to build a buffer box at 10 meg ohm, and i'm very interested in that, but a variable inpedance unit sounds very interesting...

     
  13. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    To be honest, I didn't really give it much thought. I have used both the front panel direct out and the rear panel balanced 1/4" (which I believe functions as an unbalanced 1/4" output when you use a tip/sleeve cord), and I think that they sound fairly similar. I used the back panel output because it was more convenient for use with the IP112 (wich is how we initially used it). We certainly could have used the front panel direct out, though I doubt that our results would have varied much.

    The variable impedance setting actually spent most of its sime between 500k and 1.5 Meg, believe it or not.

    Oh, and technically, there are four outputs on the TD-110, as it also has a "headphone" output.

    Tom.
     
  14. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    that's very interesting. why is that? would you agree with uncletoad that as you turned up the impedance it added more lower frequencies? did you keep it lower just to avoid too much boom? if this is so, would you say that a 10 meg input would give you the most frequency bandwidth to work with, and you could achieve similar results to yours by cutting the lows (or whatever frequency) with an eq?

    just curious. its my impression that you get the most tonal palette to work with with the 10 meg, and from there you can eq to taste... is that what you experience with your unit? (as you can see, i'm really interested in variable impedance!)
     
  15. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    I thought it sounded terrible with the impedance knob all the way up - there was too much "boom" in the sound. I don't know what the numbers would have been, but I really liked the unit when the knob was about at 10 o'clock or so. There was very little "flab" on the sound at that setting. The phase switch also sounded really good with my Full Circle.
     
  16. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    10 o'clock is probably around 500k-700k. I was also surprised that this setting ended up sounding so good, and would have suspsected that a higher impedance would have been preferred. But, much like the variable high pass filter on the Focus, this control allowed us to dial out some of the boom and allowed the voice of the mids to speak a bit more clearly.

    Also, the low setting on the Summit is 10k, the highest setting is 2 Meg.

    Tom.
     
  17. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    ok, i've been doing some research... when you vary the input inpedance you're actually creating a variable high pass filter. the higher the impedance, the lower the cutoff frequency and thus more boom. you dial down the impedance, and you move the cutoff frequency up and dial out the flab. this would explain why you liked the impedance not at max. i've read in some of your other posts that you're also a fan of high pass filters.... that summit box is an inadvertant high pass filter... i had no idea the focus has a high pass filter. it sounds like you might be able to get the same results as with the summit... you have the 10 meg input allowing full range, but you dial out the flab with the high pass filter... how would you compare the sound of going direct to the focus and using the high pass filter with the summit box?
     
  18. Aleph5

    Aleph5

    Feb 24, 2004
    Tennessee
    I was going to ask some of the same questions about input Z, so I'll ask my other question: Does the Summit use a wall wart or is it AC line direct in? Forgive if this has already been mentioned. Interestly, the website for the unit has no photo of the rear of the unit, that I could find.

    Also, have any of the Belchfesters (or anyone else) had any experience with the A-Designs REDDI? I briefly experimented with one yesterday, and my priliminary impression was :hyper:. I need to do some more tests before I sort out all the REDDI was actually really responsible for, but I wuz gettin' some good tone. :p A face off of these two (and maybe some others) might be interesting.
     
  19. Chris Fitzgerald

    Chris Fitzgerald Student of Life Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    Oct 19, 2000
    Louisville, KY
    That was a very informative post. The Summit sounded different because it also had a phase switch, and I've always thought the full circle sounded better with the phase reversed. At any rate, the Focus also sounds good, and the HP filter helps a lot...but the phase thing combined with the variable impedance creates a special "voodoo gumbo"* kinda thing. In addition to having little too much big bottom, the FC also has a hump in the low mids that gets worse the louder you get. The Summit seemed to carve some of the "wolf" out of the sound.





    * seamonkey translation: Sounds better in some subjective, unquantifiable way.
     
  20. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    did you know that the fishman platinum eq has 10 meg input, a high pass filter, and a phase switch? (also a compressor and eq) and is alot cheaper....i would love to hear your impression of the fishman compared to the summit and the focus.

     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
    Feb 26, 2021

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