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SVT 3 and blown speaker

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by geddy402, Aug 10, 2012.


  1. geddy402

    geddy402

    Jul 20, 2012
    I'm running an Ampeg SVT3 Pro head and an Eden 2x10XST cab at 4 ohms. I thought this would be a nice combo, seeing how the head is rated for 450 watts @ 4 ohms and the cab is 500 watts @ 4 ohms, but I blew a speaker! Now I have a Geddy Lee jazz bass with a j-retro preamp installed. The bass runs hot...really hot. But I didn't think much of it when the clip light kept going on because of other threads I've read on here saying its no big deal. And low and behold the speaker started flopping. Not sure if it was the speaker's fault, the head, or the preamp cranked to 11. Probably a combination of all...plus my aggressive playing.

    So what's the deal, should I be paranoid with the light, or do you think it was just a perfect storm scenario? Any recommendations in the future, other than don't crank the preamp? Is there a sweet spot on the SVT 3 pro where I'm not in danger or blowing something up?

    By the way I've since replaced the speaker and seems to be working fine. But, I'm very cautious with the gain knob...and that red light is freaking me out.
     
  2. First and foremost, manufacturer power handling specs are generally a lie. There are some that have decent ratings but they are the exception. A 210 is going to be hard pressed to truly handle more than 300 or so watts regardless of manufacturer, power handling rating, or impedance rating.

    Second, dont back off your gain back off the master. If the speaker sounds like its farting then you have to back off the volume.
     
  3. geddy402

    geddy402

    Jul 20, 2012
    Thanks! Good advice...not a gain issue, volume issue.
     
  4. your clip light should be coming on if you have your gain set correctly. Its more of an "Appropriate signal level" light than a warning light.
     
  5. otherclef

    otherclef

    Aug 10, 2011
    Charleston
    So you are saying if build a 2x10 using

    http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro%2010fh500-1.htm

    OR say

    http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2010G40-1.htm


    I'm still gonna have a problem at 450 watts???

    I dont think so!!!
    If you use quality speakers and treat them with in their specs they will stand up to the use.
     
  6. Show me a commercial manufacturer that uses those speakers or provides that type of data on their cabs. Even if there are, the same can not be said for every manufacturer. Its not about ratings you get from a speaker manufacturer on their pro audio level speakers, its about the specs that are slapped on commercial gear by so many of the big name manufacturers.
     
  7. geddy402

    geddy402

    Jul 20, 2012
    Should I get a different head? Something better suited for the Eden 2x10 XST? The Aguilar tone hammer looks nice and is only 350 watts I think.

    Or should I save some money and just be more careful with the master volume?
     
  8. RickenBoogie

    RickenBoogie

    Jul 22, 2007
    Dallas, TX
    Forget wattage ratings. Just be sensible with your expectations. A 210 is a 210, not an 810. Playing hard and loud requires bigger spkr cabs. A 210 is good for solo practice, or a low key band practice, but by the sounds of your playing style, you need at least a 410.
     
  9. I would just be more careful with your master volume. If you need to be significantly louder, than a bigger cab is in order.
     
  10. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Gold Supporting Member

    Aug 25, 2007
    Toronto Ontario Canada
    +1 I use the 2x10 format but I always use a pair. For most of us a single 2x10 is not a gig-able amp.
     
  11. geddy402

    geddy402

    Jul 20, 2012
    Cool. I was thinking about picking up an Aguilar DB112. You think that would be a good match for the Eden?

    Also, since I have a replacement speaker in there, you think there is a problem with the voicing of the cab? One speaker obviously has more wear than the other, or do you think having the original and replacement in there is ok?

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  12. otherclef

    otherclef

    Aug 10, 2011
    Charleston
    The root cause of the issue here is crappy speakers.
    What I'm saying here let's not just generalize. I'm sure that quality speaker which were listed as 500watts would still be rocking with that head.

    But that's not the issue. A good 2x10 can do well in most small bars or in the right mix.
     
  13. craig.p

    craig.p

    Sep 28, 2008
    New Hampshire
    You have a subsonic problem that you need to fix before you address anything else. Your aggressive playing only aggravates the situation because that alone generates subsonics that your cab is not tuned to handle (nor is any other vented cab for that matter). Lots of bass boost won't help either, nor will bass boost in a region that can't be handled by the cab. Unfortunately most bass controls are shelving and therefore DO affect that region. Some amp manufacturers actually brag about how low their bass controls run, and/or how low their amps can run flat, frequency-wise. Remarkable. With those you need to take special precautions.

    Your on-board preamp claims to lower its effective band as bass boost is increased. I smell danger there, too. Its max boost is 15 dB at 50 Hz, and even if the circuit is NOT shelving (i.e. it's peaking), it's doubtful the Q of that circuit is narrow enough not to intrude into the region where your cab/drivers are susceptible to overexcursion due to driver unloading.

    You also asked if there's a possible problem with a new and old speaker in the same cab. Yep, there could be, since one's new/stiff while the other is abused, loosened up, and generally bts. They're almost certainly cancelling/reinforcing at various frequencies.

    So... Get a high-pass filter into your signal chain. Select its frequency about 20 Hz above the cab's -3dB point. Boost bass only with non-shelving bass controls. Ideally you'd want a peaking bass control with a center frequency of around 80 Hz and a Q that won't allow the boost to intrude below the cab's -3dB point. You're probably looking at at least a semi-parametric bass control (if not full para). The ones in the Carvins work well; their low-mid controls can boost/cut all the way down to 50 Hz. That allows you to leave the bass control flat or possibly even cut it back a bit to reduce subsonics.

    I know there's a lot to digest here, but I hope it helps.
     
  14. A 112 isnt going to do any better than a 210.
     
  15. +1

    The problem is that to meet price points, commercial cab companies use those crappy speakers. Eden isnt even a budget brand, and yet those speakers clearly are not up to task.

    I could probably gig with the right 212, but it would be rocking two 3012LF drivers and wouldnt blink at a kW being thrown at it.
     
  16. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    If you want loud, you need big or you need super efficient speakers like the LF/mid driver cabs. And even with them, the bigger they are, the better off you are. That's all there is.
     
  17. +1

    More is always more.
     
  18. sedan_dad

    sedan_dad Supporting Member

    Feb 5, 2006
    Columbus,Ohio
    So if you want to play in a loud band , why don't you get a decent cab? At least a 410 if you're wanting any volume. You can get a used Ampeg 410he for $350 or so. Even a 810 can be had for a nickle.
     
  19. geddy402

    geddy402

    Jul 20, 2012
    Well part of the problem is that I don't want a massive rig. The rig is part of my downsizing effort, but still having the power to cut through. The problem is that I treated it like the Genz Benz 410XB that I have and its not the same cab. I just flew too close to the sun on this set up and paid the price.

    I did go back and turned off the low and bright boosts and adjusted the eq with the bass, treble and mid range knobs. Made a world of difference.

    Its my own stupid fault for not really knowing how to use the amp...you live you learn I guess.

    Thanks for all the advice! And I might get a filter to help with he unbalanced cab if it becomes a noticeable issue. But I'll play it as is and all the "uniqueness" of the rig will be part of my "sound.". Haha.
     
  20. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    That's why a lot of us who have downsized in the past have upsized shortly after. You don't need massive but you obviously need more than a standard 210.
     

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