Switching cab placement?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Esquillama, Jan 29, 2005.

  1. Call me crazy... but tonight I switched the way my cabs are set up.
    Normally I put my 1x15 on the bottom, and my 2x10 on the top.
    Tonight I did just the opposite.
    The result: tighter tone (with a bit of EQ tweaking).
    At least that's how it seemed to me. I sing a medley of motown
    songs during the night while our lead guitarist plays my bass.
    As I was out among the audience, I got a chance to hear what
    my rig sounded like set up this way, and I thought it sounded
    pretty good. The wierd thing is, I run it bi-amped, so the 2x10
    has the highs and tonight they were coming out at my feet,
    while the lows were closer to my ears.
    Has anyone out there tried this? What kind of results did you have?
  2. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Yeah, i like chucking my 15 on top of my 2x10 from time to time.

    Oh, and yeah. I notice alot more punch, depending on location, sometimes a little less low end. But the punch i get is really cutting.
  3. I was thinking of placing them side by side tomorrow night,
    with the 2x10 set up vertically. Just to see if it sounds any
    different. Of course it'll be at a different venue....
  4. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    a couple of things.

    first off, experimenting with cab stacking is a good thing. generally the cab with the most low end sounds best on the bottom, and cabs should be stacked with the drivers arranged as vertically as possible for a coherent sound and optimum dispersion. (in my case i run all cabs full range, my 2x10 has the best low end - its on the bottom and on its side so the tens are top and bottom rather than side by side)

    second. using a crossover to biamp will (IMO) generally do more harm than good in a typical bass guitar setup. in a pa the different speaker cabinets are optimized to reproduce certain portions or the audio spectrum. the crossover(s) make sure they get justthis part. in contrast, bass guitar cabinets are designed to reproduce as much of the signal as possible. running them biamped tends to make you sound quieter and less full sounding. there is a good chance that your rig sounds better with the 2x10 on bottom because the 15 was putting out most of the sound anyway.
  5. So maybe I should put the 2x10 back on top, and put it on it's
    side so the speakers are vertical, and put my amp rack on the
    Also, my preamp is the BBE Bmax, it only has one out for speakers
    the other one goes to the board. How do I run two speakers
    full range with only one out? Plus, my amp is a Sountech PS802
    and I need to run both sides, but with only one out to work with
    how do I manage? Much thanks for the helpful input.
  6. If your power amp doesn't have a parallel switch, you'll need a y cable to connect the preamp to both channels.
  7. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    yup - very easy to do. i had to do that with my alembic.

    and you don't have to put the 210 on its side with the rack on the floor. it will give you better projection, but it's not necessary. don't drive yourself crazy with the rack on the floor. ;)
  8. I've just been reading my PS802 owner's manual, and it doesn't
    have a dual mono switch (the PS1602 does) and without that,
    I guess I'll have to try the adapter route.
    I'll probably try it with the 2x10 back on top (horizontal),
    but this time running both speakers full range - bypassing the
    crossover. I'll put the rack back on top (as not to drive myself crazy).
    Thanks Ivan Mike.
  9. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    I started putting my 210 on the bottom last year. It sounds much better to my ears. But then I also run both cabs full range. (Bag End S15-CUS on top, Eden D210XLT on bottom)


  10. Why is it that so many people say that 10" speakers seem
    to have better low end? I always thought that bigger
    speakers were meant to produce "bigger" (lower freq.) sound?
    Maybe I'll put the 2x10 back on the bottom again tonight.
    But running full range this time.
    One other question:
    My owner's manual for my BBE Bmax says that the 1/4" out
    is not balanced. Will a balanced 1/4" adapter(single male to
    dual female) still send signal to both female sides of the
    adapter? Or do I need to make sure the adapter's male end
    is unbalanced?
  11. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    It depends on the cabinet. I once A/B'ed my rig live using a 1x15 and a 4x10, then two matching 4x10's. The two 4x10's gve me much more low end than the 1x15 and one 4x10.

    The results could have easily been different if a different brand of cabinets had been used.
  12. Well, I just gat back from buying a 1/4" mono male to 1/4" dual
    female adapter. I'll give it a try tonight and leave a note about
    how it turned out tomorrow. Thank you to all for the helpful input.
  13. Well, I just got back from tonight's adventure.
    I didn't get to run both the 1x15 & 2x10 full range,
    I only used the 2x10 because of space constrictions.
    I actually ended up putting my speaker & rack on top
    of a table pedestal in a little "hallway" type room behind
    the stage to save space. Our lead guitarist and lead singer
    ended up standing on the floor (it was a small stage in a private club).

    Anyway, I ran the 2x10 full range, and WOW, very big sound!
    Our spot light operator said at a few points she could feel the
    bass in her chest. No one has ever said that about my sound.
    I can't wait to use both speakers full range next weekend at
    a local casino.

    The only thing is, the peak indicator light was
    flashing on the side of my power amp, and I didn't notice
    until the last few songs. I don't know if it was doing that all
    night or not. Will it make a difference if I turn down the power
    amp and turn up the preamp? Or will the peak indicator light
    still flash? I can't try it out until next weekend, 'cause my
    keyboard player takes my rig in his trailer.
    Sorry this is so long, I just have multiple questions I guess.
  14. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    #1 - larger driver do handle low end better. but the design of the specific drivers and the design and tuning of the specific cabinets sometimes results in a cabinet with smaller diameter drivers producing more low end than one with a larger diameter driver. when running both of those cabs full range you will notice an increase in low end as well just because you have more drivers all reproducing the low frequencies.

    #2 - the peak light was coming on because you were jsut starting to clip (or about to clip) the poweramp. turning the gains down on the poweramp and turning up the preamp will not help. the gains on the poweramp are actually attenuators the lower the signal coming from the preamp. however, i wouldn't worry about this too much as long as you don't hear any distortion and as long as the peak light is only blinking on very breifly every few notes or so. when you run both cabs full range you won't need to trun up as loud so i doubt you'll have the peak light come on
  15. I expected to get more low end with both speakers for sure.
    I guess I didn't think about the fact that I won't have to turn
    up at all with both cabinets, naturally more speakers running
    would produce more sound, therefore, I can use less volume
    from each cabinet. Thank you for pointing that out, I guess
    if I'd been thinking more about the "big picture" I would have
    figured that out.
    I'm still planning on putting the 2x10 on the bottom next
    weekend, just to see what the "low end" is like now that
    I'll be running in full range.
  16. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    You might also want to make sure that both cabs are running in phase with each other (moving in at the same time and out at the same time).

    If they are 180 degrees out (opposite of each other) they will actually cancel out bass.

    1. Connect both cabs together with a speaker cable (no amp needed).

    2. Make a pigtail with one end bare wire and a connector on the other.

    3. Plug the connector of the pigtail into one of your parallel jacks.

    4. Take a 9v battery and touch one wire to the plus side and one wire to the minus side at the same time.

    Your speakers will either move in together, move out together or one will move in and one will move out.

    If they move the same direction you're good to go. If they move opposite of each other you should rewire one cab to match the other.

    Good luck.


  17. Ethon


    Jan 25, 2003
    Akron, Ohio
    heh heh heh

  18. If they're made by the same manufacturer, shouldn't they be in Phase?
    They were part of a Carvin rig bought all together with a PB500
    head back in 1992 or so.
  19. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    all cabs should be in phase thru their input jacks
    only improperly wired ones arent
  20. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Probably yes but not necessarily. It never hurts to check.

    It's easy.

    But if you're getting plenty of bottom...it's probably ok.