Switching to Class D. Is 500w enough?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by lilcoffeebeen, Aug 12, 2022.

  1. lilcoffeebeen

    lilcoffeebeen

    May 27, 2019
    Atlanta Ga
    Ok I’m buying a modern class D rig. I’m actually considering buying an 800w (Genzler 800) but the one I am probably buying is a 500w (pf500). Even if I go with the 800, with a single cab it’s rated for 400w & im looking at a single 210 cabinet for that. So even w the genzler I’d be running just 400w. I have scraped YouTube but ultimately I just need to know… is 400-500w enough to cut through a heavy hitting band on stage in a live mix without using DI?
     
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  2. Smokey P

    Smokey P Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2021
    Yes, 500 is enough in my opinion. It matters a lot more what kind of cabinet you’re using. An Ampeg PF 500 into a 1x15 or 2x10? No probably not. A PF 500 into an ampeg ported 4x10 or 2x15 should be plenty. I’ve played absurdly loud sets with an ampeg pf500 and an svt410hlf, but your definition of hard hitting might be a lot different from mine.
     
  3. lilcoffeebeen

    lilcoffeebeen

    May 27, 2019
    Atlanta Ga
    Thanks yeah I was really wanting a modern cabinet with low profile design but I am definitely considering grabbing a 410HLF just to feel safe. By hard hitting I mean deafening noise rock band. I just play so much at home I wanted a pretty little cabinet that could get away with doing both. I’ll get a larger cab.
     
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  4. Smokey P

    Smokey P Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2021
    Depending on your budget I’d recommend getting both if you can. Luckily if it’s not urgent you can scoop up a 410hlf for pretty cheap, I got the one I had last year for $250 on f*cebook marketplace. Then get an 8ohm 112 that weighs sub-40lbs for playing at home or for jams and quieter gigs/rehearsals. I definitely wouldn’t want that 410hlf to be my only cab cause mine weighed about 100lbs and I live in a major city so I couldn’t just stash it in my garage and load it to the car, lots of steps climbing and buy a friend a drink for helping me haul it that night. Best sounding cab I’ve ever used though, honestly.
     
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  5. ctmullins

    ctmullins Dominated Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 18, 2008
    MS Gulf Coast
    I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
    Watts don’t make noise. You need more cabinet.
     
  6. lilcoffeebeen

    lilcoffeebeen

    May 27, 2019
    Atlanta Ga
    Yeah dude I live in the middle of a major city in a
    im on it
     
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  7. Smokey P

    Smokey P Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2021
    Yeah same, nice thing about being in a city is there’s usually a good local used market and heavier bass cabs are selling pretty cheap these days. Someone near me is selling 2 ampeg svt115he cabs for 200 a peice. That would be a great set up for what you’re talking about with the PF500. One cab for practice, rehearsals, small stuff (tho the pf500 and 115 would cover 90% of my gigs) and then bring both for a bigger rooms. Also worth considering though, if you’re playing clubs and venues in a major city than a lot of those places will have at least a 410 or 212 for backline. If it’s DIY noise music stuff than that’s less likely to have a backline.
     
  8. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Yup. Whether or not you cut through will have everything to do with speakers/cabs and (almost) nothing to do with Watts. You get the right cabs and 100W is plenty.

    I've done plenty of gigs with an Ashdown LB30 (30 watt) head and an Epifani UL410 cab. Plenty of cab made 30 watts go a long way.
     
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  9. MrKpawz

    MrKpawz Supporting Member

    Dec 27, 2021
    Michigan
    I hear "deafening noise rock band" and I saw this on sale yesterday. This might be the small, low profile cab you could use :smug:

    BETABASSS.png
     
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  10. jnewmark

    jnewmark Just wanna play the groove. Supporting Member

    Aug 31, 2006
    Stax 1966
    Third St. Cigar Records staff musician.
    Yup. More speakers = more volume.
     
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  11. mrjim123

    mrjim123 Suspended Supporting Member

    May 17, 2008
    Indy
    RougHouse
    +1. Going from 500W to 800W will give you very little additional volume. In a loud band with no DI out a 2x10 probably won't cut it; 4x10 or 2x15 probably will.
     
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  12. And I

    And I

    Feb 19, 2009
    Witchtown, MA
    Get a second 210 and as long as they are reasonably efficient speakers you'll love your lightweight 500 watt head and won't be wanting more.
     
  13. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    A 500W head is enough I think yes, but whether you can hear yourself well on stage is going to be more about the cabinet. 500W into a gigantic 810 will be a lot easier to hear than 500W into a 210 blasting at your knees.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
  14. NKBassman

    NKBassman Lvl 10 Nerd Supporting Member

    Jun 16, 2009
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    +1. I've been using a 500W head (Aggie TH500) into a 2x210 vertical stack for many years now.
     
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  15. lug

    lug Supporting Member

    Feb 11, 2005
    League City, Tx
    If 500w and 4 tens can't get you there, your whole band will be deaf within the year anyway. I run 500w to 2 2X12's and i can't imagine going even half that stack's volume capability. The only time I've ever had to push it even a little bit is an outdoor gig.
     
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  16. Basslice

    Basslice Supporting Member

    May 11, 2008
    Western Massachusetts
    I'd vote for two large cabs. 1x15 (times 2) or 4x10 (times 2) of a combination. I used to play loud large club gigs with a 2x10 on top of a 4x10 and was fine. I also used to play an Ampeg V4B into 1x15 (times 2) and we were loud enough, although at this point, hearing yourself and other musicians can be tricky.
     
  17. jdjk7

    jdjk7 Supporting Member

    May 12, 2016
    Bloomington, IN, USA
    As others have said, your cabinets are a big factor. I also think the impedance of the cabinets is a factor; not only does it affect the power output (higher ohms = less output), but I have a not-very-scientific, based-only-in-anecdote opinion that lower impedance on a cab makes for a better sound. For example, my SWR combo is a 2x10, but the 2x10 cabinet is 4ohm instead of the typical 8ohm, and it's louder and sounds better than any 8ohm 2x10 I've ever played. A lot of cabinets oriented toward the 500w Class D market will be 8 ohm cabs, but I'm sure you could find a 4 ohm 4x10.
     
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  18. This. This. And this.
    Get two, 2x10 cabs and stack then vertically.
     
  19. RustfeatherBass

    RustfeatherBass Supporting Member

    Jan 19, 2022
    Haverhill, MA
    I may be in the minority, but I say get the 800 watts so you never have to worry about not having enough. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, as the saying goes.

    And as others have said, if you're playing in a loud, hard-hitting band, adding another cab will generally do more for you than adding more watts. But as someone who has played in some stupid loud bands and not been loud enough, I'd go for 800 watts AND another cab. Then you'll never have to worry. And you can always take half the rig when/if appropriate.
     
  20. Kaa

    Kaa

    Sep 28, 2004
    Cleveland, Ohio
    While I love the description, please make sure you plug those ear canals.
     
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