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Switching to Schroeder, many questions.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by fivestringdan, Oct 11, 2005.


  1. fivestringdan

    fivestringdan Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2001
    Little Rock, AR
    I'm wanting to change my Genz Benz rig to maybe two Schroeder cabinets. Here are my questions.

    1. Would a 1210 and a 21012 be too much? Maybe two 1210's?

    2. Any big tonal difference in the 21012 and the 410?

    I will travel to Nashville to listen for myself, just wanted some insite from Schroeder players. I play all kinds of gigs, big band, jazz quartet, Funk/Rock band, so I need some good "all around" cabinets.

    Thanks,
     
  2. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    I have a feeling that the 21012 would be plenty big...You might find that the 1212 would cover your needs...it does mine, and I play with a band that's quite cavalier with its stage volume on certain stages.
     
  3. 8mmOD

    8mmOD

    Mar 20, 2005
    USA
    I endorse & use Tech 21 pedals, Eminence loaded cabs, EMG pickups, Jim Dunlop picks & Ernie Ball Strings, BC Rich Basses.
    I did a quick demo of all of the schroeder cabs and found the 21012 was VERY articulate and transparent & full. That is usually what people are looking for, right? but it sounded "too good" to me- i need something that will cover up my hack playing... i am not saying the 410 was muddy or wimpy, it was not by any means, but it was more appealing for my tastes. the 410 sounded about the same as the 310212 IMO. the 410 has a bit more clarity than the 1212 IMO. All of the cabs sounded fantastic to me and they all sounded a bit different. But my experience is based on a fairly quick demo of these cabs (maybe an hour all together) so take it with a grain of salt. One thing I am pretty sure of is one cab would probably get the job done nicely... I dont think you'd "need" a stack of them in most cases. Its very smart to try them all out to find the one best for your needs
     
  4. CrackBass

    CrackBass

    Aug 10, 2004
    huntsville,AL
    i love my 21012. i have gigged with it for over a year in every situation from moderate volume, to balls out loud. flawless. i play a mixture of rock and funk. i transition from slap to fingerstyle without touching my eq. it just works. love that cab.
     
  5. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    I have both a 1210 and a 410. In the right situation, the 1210 is a better choice for me than the 410. In others, the 410 is better. For instance:

    1210 works extremely well in smaller to mid sized room with average to good acoustics, playing to the dancefloor level and beyond, either with or without PA support.

    410 works extremely well in medium to larger room of any acoutical type.

    Both work excellent outdoors, great stage sound and nice volume.

    So you ask why not use the 410 all the time? 80 pounds of schlepping and no help carrying...that's why. It's still lighter than many many many 410's I've had and definitely lighter yet as loud and better sounding than many of the 610 and 810 cabinets available. Everything is relative.

    I try to use the 1210 as much as possible, but if I know upfront that a hotel or party center grand ballroom is the venue, I take the larger cabinet. If I don't know what the venue is like, I'll take both cabinets and leave on in the car (don't tell anyone!!!) or just take the 410.

    My feelings towards the 21012 vs the 410, deeper and rounder does not in my bands make for better. It makes for more issues. Punchy clean with plenty of bottom short of dub reggae/subwoofer oomph is all I want and frankly, almost more than any enclosed room can handle anyway, let alone if I'm going through the PA. Regarding slap tone, I play fingerstyle 99% and will occasionally slap a lick or two, and I don't need to change anything tonewise either.

    I love the tone, volume, value, build, and portability of both cabinets, but you need to be in shape for the 410, but less so compared to most of 'em.

    Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions or issues you're dealing with.

    LKaye
     
  6. bassjam

    bassjam

    Aug 2, 2004
    dfw
    Lakland Basses,Genz Benz
    i think larry hit it right on the head on the comparison between the 410 and 21012.i personally liked the sound of the 410 better but there are plenty of guys that like the 21012 more.but even though neither one is that bad to lug around i got the 1210 first and added a 1212 later with the thought id use both together as needed.ive never had to as the 1212 with plenty loud for me.i did add a mini 12 that ive used with the the 1212 and thought it sounded great.i wanted to get the 410 but got spoiled with the lighter cabs and think for now im fine.
     
  7. SnoMan

    SnoMan Words Words Words Supporting Member

    Jan 27, 2001
    Charleston, WV
    I'm running a 1210 (currently with only 350watts going to it...but not for long...)

    My main gig has me with two high gain guitarists and a loud drummer and that cab just smokes!

    Ton of punch and so small.
     
  8. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    As usual, LK succinctly expresses my feelings;)
    I have the same 2 cabs, and use them the exact same way.


     
  9. jetsetvet

    jetsetvet Banned

    Mar 24, 2005
    What Genz-Benz cabs are you wanting to replace? And what do you not like about them that makes you want to switch? It seems that most GB owners are pretty happy with that gear.

    There is some very positive buzz going on about the Genz-Benz NeoX-212T cab.
    http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=1436&sid=426&cid=96
    http://www.music123.com/Genz-Benz-NeoX-212T-i142088.music

    One TB member ( "Dont" ) has been especially positive on this cab, saying that after doing a direct comparison between it, a Schroeder 212, and a Accugroove Bill Dickens 2x12x8 there was no contest to his ears (and the other components of his rack are top-rank stuff). The first GB NeoX-212T he purchased impressed him enough that he got a second one.......just one endorsement, but from someone who seems to be a discriminating judge.

    Despite reading all the positive buzz about Schroeders, there aren't too many comments about those who have had the opportunity to compare them directly against comparably spec'd/priced Bergantino, Epifani, EA, Accugroove, Acme, Dr Bass, EBS, Eden and Genz-Benz cabs. This, of course, is understandable because most music stores will carry one or two premium lines of cabs, but not all of them....so there aren't so many opportunities for auditioning one against another. It may be worth it to you to search the TB forums for the strings on the GB NeoX-212T (which is also about $100 cheaper than a Schroeder 212). Dr Bass and Gallien-Kruger both make a 2x12 Neodynium cab as well, which have receieved some positive comments, and are around $500-600.
     
  10. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    I'm all for "the more options, the better".

    Luckily, we are living in great times for bass players with a wealth of diverse and great bass equipment.

    Listen to as much equipment as you can and if possible, arrange to use it at a live gig -- there's no substitute for that.

    I owned a Bergantino HT322 cab for a year and played several different gigs and venues (including outdoor gigs).
    It is an exceptional bass speaker system.

    The Schroeder 410 just fits my tastes and needs a bit more closely than the HT322 -- both are awesome cabs!

    I've had the 410 for over a year now and I would make the same choice over again in a heartbeat.

    At this level it's all about personal tastes.
     
  11. rockstarbassist

    rockstarbassist Banned

    Apr 30, 2002
    The Woodlands, TX
    Endorsing Artist: HCAF
    I like major boo-tay, plus shiny clear top-end when called upon, so the 21012 will be my next purchase, I do believe. Plus, when added to my 1210 (ha!) I'll have a 310212. I will own all... ;)
     
  12. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    I've owned a real hodge podge of "higher" end bass cabs. Since I don't really "love" any of the heads I've had and would rather just keep the weight of the head as low as possible with reasonable power, and then color it with my DoD 31 band eq to the flavor I'd prefer, and since I've finally got a bass I really LOVE rather than have a Love/Hate relationship with them depending on the gig, I have to be very picky about the speaker cabs. They're the key component for me right now. I have "my sound" from the bass, eq, and head. Now the defining moment is how the cabinet projects and adds to that "sound".

    OK so far? I've owned 3 EA VL110's, 2 208's, 1 cxl 112, an Epifani 310 Nyc, and 212 old version NYC, 2 aguilar 112's, Eden 210 xlt, 2 SWR Goliath jrs, 2 Bag end 115's, 1 Bag End 210 coax red carpeted one, 2 Low Down Sound 2x8 cabs,and NOW a prototype Schroeder 1210 (Selenium speakers and horn...700 watt capacity 4 ohms) and a "normal" 410.

    Here's my take on these....it's just my opinion...don't beat me up over it ok?

    EA VL110's.....not enough bottom, very inefficient. Not loud enough, highs too reserved. Lightweight, but coulda used 4 of them and 2000 watts!!! Only had 850 watts available...280 per cab wasn't enough. Paid $1350 and shipping .... it's been a while...my guess is $1475 total? 3 of 'em weigh 110+ pounds.

    EA VL208's....Sounded really great on stage but did not project into the room more than 20 feet. Sounded thin and also were easily overdriven when attempting to add some thickness to 'em. Very expensive new, still weighed 48+ pounds apiece, too small for casters...pain in the ingress and egress. Bought mine new....Paid $675 + shipping each. $1450 outta pocket.

    EA CXL 112....was fairly efficient, sounded great but I needed two of them....only had one.... overpowered it at low to low/mid volume...speaker farted out easily when adding very little bottom over flat....then we start into the schlepp and moolah factors again....$1400+ for two and shipping ='s $1500. Schlepp is around 92 pounds for two or so.

    All EA cabs were very even sounding...all notes same volume and tone....flat. Although each cabinet is not overly expensive? I don't feel these are even close to a single cab solution....add up money for mulitples and weights, and still not get the "sound" I want.... choice was simple...sold it all.

    NEXT

    Epifani 310....my amp didn't like the weird ohmage....well,,,,kinda...it was the fact that the amp didn't "open" up until it was cranking 4 or 2 ohms...I never reached the potential of this cab, but it didn't have enough bottom or punch anything near the 410...I think it's more closely to a 4 ohm, 210 epifani or other fairly efficient 210. Highs were a bit brittle...I had the "old" tweeter on the thing.
    New nowadays....I don't know.....then about $750 or 800 + shipping and it weighed if I remember correctly around 64 pounds. Needed a second cab, didn't cut through.

    Epifani 212....my favorite single (until Schroeder) What oomph this sucker had....heavy heavy and heavier. very awkward to load and unload. Not so nice sounding highs....again the older tweeter. Really projected bottom but needed to be turned up to sound cut through and punchy. New around a grand maybe more in it's time. 72 pounds...not that heavy for a bitchin 212....too heavy for me with the awkwarness and size.

    Aguilar 112....to polite, to quiet. LDS's too polite, scooped sounding mids, didn't cut through but amazing volume with cranked....needed a 2 ohm output...I was running 1200 watts through them....cheap....$650 total delivered....lightweight ....around 65 total pounds....just didn't cut through enough + restricted me in having a 2 ohm head...(36 pounds vs 4 ohmer now...4 pounds).

    SWR Goliath Jr. scooped, really pretty decent, 88 pounds for two of 'em, didn't project into audience, very brittle, nasty sounding tweeter, even with dead ass strings, one wasn't enough on any except the very quietest of gigs...I had 4 ohm cabs to take advantage of various heads. Didn't matter...tone not there...volume just adequate. Eden 210xlt..total mush for me, got more use outta it as a step onto stages than a speaker cabinet...did not like it outside of trying it out at GC. VERy heavy 65+ pounds for a 210 and not enough volume or tone for a big gig and too much mush for any small room for me...I could be wrong!!! Bag ends, nice light, cheap at the time, don't know why I didn't keep 'em to be honest with you....I think I quit playing for awhile or something. That was 12 years ago.

    So that leaves us with the Schroes. Even with the 410, my total rig is under 80 pounds on big gigs and with the 1210 it's 52 pounds. Speaker wise...$750 for 1210 delivered...coulda stopped there easily...got a great trade worked out and got the 410 in addition....may sell it or the 1210 at some point, but I doubt it. 410 now is what? around $1050 delivered? It's very competitive. I don't feel there's anything can touch the medium sized schroe's at the moment...volume/tone/price/weight comparison.

    don't ever forget the level of personalized service and build quality which isn't mentioned as often as it should be.

    There ya go...see ya later.

    LKaye
     
  13. I've had my 12/12 since last November and have played it on over 60 gigs. I purchased a 12/10 in July to run both cabs together for outside events. I did that once. The 12/12, in my humble opinion, will meet all of your needs. Punchy, clear, resounding, fills the room, clarity. . . what can I say? This cab kicks butt and sounds like no other. In fact, I wish I had purchased a second 12/12 for a back up instead of the 12/10. It's about as close to perfect as you can get.
     
  14. i will review my new 1212 after my first gig with it on 10-26.
    should i run my gk1001RB or SUNN1200S?
    thats the question of the week.

    -todd
     
  15. fivestringdan

    fivestringdan Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2001
    Little Rock, AR
    I have neo 1x12, 2x10xb and a 1x15. I LOVE the tone of the cabinets!!! Very flat, not too much high end and warm bottom. Problem, the 1x12 is 300watts (which works fine for most situations), 2x10 is 250watts, and the 1x15 is 200 watts. I have owned an Epifani 4x10 NYC(98lbs!!!), numerous ampegs, swr cabs. I just need more volume. Played a gig week before last in a large ampitheater and had the 2x10 and 1x12 stacked directly behind me and couldn't hear anything. Now the stage was concrete and a metal roof was no help either but I have played my Epifani on an outdoor stage that was similer with no problems. I don't want to switch, I 've had the 2x10 for over 6 years. I really need the epifani volume in a smaller cabinet and these seem to do the trick.
     
  16. jetsetvet

    jetsetvet Banned

    Mar 24, 2005
    Well if volume per watt is your trouble, do consider that "Dont" found the GB Neox-212 to be as loud as the Schroeder with the same power, except that he found the low bass to break up (fart out?) at a lower volume in the Schroeder than in the GB. See his threads on this here: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/search.php?searchid=1485429
    And he is a five string player and was pumping very clean power from a 1400 watt per channel Crest amp (he obviously couldn't have put all those watts into the GB Neo rated for 600, but at the loudest he could play the cab the amp was no where near clipping). It seems that many of these Neodynium equipped cabs, can really be pushed hard and play loud without farting out, but still are efficient in terms of needed power.

    On that stage where you could not hear yourself with the two cabs....how much power were you pushing? Maybe more power would acheive your sound needs as much, or more, than a new cab would? Just a thought.
     
  17. I've owned many of the cabs you reviewed and pretty much agree with everything you said (along with how you use your 1210 vs 410... although my 410 of choice is the Epi410UL at the moment).

    One comment regarding the Epi's. I also had one of the original T-310's (with the original crossover and the thin (16") cab, and agree with your assessment... the treble response was very harsh and the low end did not really perform as I had hoped. The new 310UL (and the recently discontinued NYC310) with the new crossover and full depth (18") cab is a TOTALLY different animal... with beautiful hi mid and treble response, and much more punch and projection than the original design... and only 47 pounds.
     
  18. Larry Kaye

    Larry Kaye Retailer: Schroeder Cabinets

    Mar 23, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    for $525 + shipping one way, I coulda gotten the new Neo 12 speakers, crossover, and tweeter installed for me at Epi's NYC operation. It didn't make sense to me at the time.

    Ken....what are the dimensions of your UL410? What is the typical street price today of one? What does it weigh in at?

    I'm hoping the Jorg can come up with a UL version, especially of the large and extra large boxes, without the prices skyrocketing outta hand. If that happens I'd really like to work out an exchange, at least on the 410!!!

    Lkaye
     
  19. Hello Larry.

    I know Jorg is messing around with some Neo's... but nothing formal in the works yet.

    The 410UL is amazing.... it weighs under 60 pounds (I believe 57 is the published weight)... and it just smokes... massive volume and very efficient. It's larger than the Schroeder 410.... but still relatively small by 410 standards (18 by 23 by 26). As I've mentioned in other posts, it puts out exponentially more volume and low end punch when really cranked versus the Epi310UL, and is not that much larger. However, the Epi310UL will still fit in a back seat when needed... the 410 really needs a van, SUV, wagon, etc.

    I think the street price is around $1,100 or so, plus cover, wheels and shipping.... so probably around $1,250 delivered with all the goodies (although it's been a while since I purchased mine... so don't quote me on the exact price). Since Epi will not drop ship any more, I highly recommend Joel and Dave at The Groove Shoppe for these cabs. Since they are close to Epifani's production facility, they can just head over and get a shiny new one in the box and ship it out. I find their prices comparable or a little better than other Epi dealers, and you save the wear and tear of 'double shipping' to the shop from Epi and then to you.
     
  20. fivestringdan

    fivestringdan Supporting Member

    Dec 4, 2001
    Little Rock, AR
    I've played on the 2x12neo, really great cabinet. I would be nice to compare the two. I have been very impressed with the 1x12neo. It's a superb cab, I really don't know if I can sell it.

    I was using my GK RB1001. I think it's a little over 700 watts at 4ohms which I was using it at.