SWR Clone?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Quadzilla, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Hey all,

    I was scanning the web for bass info as usual and ran across the famous SWR Goliath III. In looking at this thing, I noticed a distinct resemblence in the drivers (speakers and horn) of the cab that I just purchased. So what did I do? I dug further of course.

    I found out that SWR uses Eminence speakers and foster horns. Hmmmm, funny, my new cab also uses Eminence speakers and a foster horn. I also noticed that the Goliath III has blue tinted Eminences just like the Eminence Deltas in my new Avatar cab. I have not seen other Eminence that were blue tinted other than the Deltas.

    Also, the Avatar and the Goliath are roughly the same size (dimensions) and weight. Both have a crossover and volume control for the Foster horn. They also have the same corner protectors.

    Wait, I did find one big difference. The price!!! Retail on the SWR Goliath III is around $1100!!! The cheapest I can find the Goliath new on the net is for about $769. I bought my Avatar 4x10 for $249!!!! Holy crap! Did I just find the best kept secret in bass cabs out there? Could it be that this thing is almost a Goliath to a tee? WOW!!!
  2. bassmanjones


    Feb 23, 2002
    Boston, MA
    Actually, many speaker companies in the U.S. use Eminence drivers. Only thing is that most of them are custom made for that manufacturer's specs. It's likely that you had the same model speaker but not likely that it was the same one SWR uses. Of course, the guy at Avatar may know some people....who knows? ;)

    Kinda like how a lot of high end basses use Bart preamps and pickups but they ain't the same preamp and pickups that you buy off the shelf even though they both say Bartolini.
  3. You used the word "roughly". Anybody who's looked into speaker cab design knows that "roughly" might work for horse shoes and hand grenades, but it doesn't work well for speaker cabs. They would also know that Eminence is the OEM for many many different companies and they make drivers to what ever specs the cab manufacturer demands. Eminence makes some great speakers, they also make some crap.

    Avatar may very well be the best kept secret around, but simply because SWR has Eminence drivers and Avatar has Eminence drivers doesn't make them equal. Carvin also has Eminence drivers and Carvin cabs don't impress me in the least.

    I'm glad you're enjoying your Avatar cabs, many people who have bought them do, but because they're blue and because they're Eminence isn't enough evidence to convince me they're in the same league with SWR.
  4. Heh. So have you been doing some photoshoping to show off the fostex horn?

    But about the eminence drivers, I know a lot of OEM's use em. You could probably find a part # on a cabinet, then contact eminence and find out how much the driver would cost vs. what thier retail line costs. Plus you might be able to get the T-S info.
  5. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    I'm trying to track down the exact specs on the SWR speakers, but they don't give em out readily. The Delta's have 56 oz magnets, 2.5" voicecoils. Anybody know the specs on the SWR Goliath speakers?

    Oh btw, the Eminences that Carvin uses are crap, I'll agree with you there. You seen a Carvin speaker next to a Eminence Delta or Kappa? It ain't even close. Carvin must be using Eminence's lowest end bass speaker. Pretty f'ing sad if you ask me that Carvin give you such sh!tty speakers for your hard earned money....
  6. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Home Depot with $5 in hand and walks out the door with Rust-oleum Silver paint!! Got it on my way home. If you look closly at the 2 pics, they are different. I pulled the horn from the cab, masked off the inside, and sprayed away. 30 min and 2 coats later, viola, SWR clone Foster horn (color wise). Cool eh.... :D :p :)

  7. From what I understand, Avatar uses a modified Kappa series which has a smaller voice coil than the bonified Kappas. Which still sounds like a pretty good speaker, but you don't really get into the good stuff from Eminence until you hit their Pro series.
  8. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Almost corect Mud,

    Avatar USED to use a Eminence OEM speaker that was close the the Delta in the 4x10 that had a 2.0" voice coil instead of the Delta's 2.5" (all other specs were the same). Now they have stopped using the OEM Eminence and switch to the actual Delta with the 2.5" vc. They have always used the acutal Kappas for the Kappa line cabs.

    As for the pro line, you are prob correct. Have you seen the new Eminence Magnum speakers they just realeased?
  9. stevekim


    Feb 11, 2000
    los angeles, ca
    the eminence speakers used by avatar have stamped steel frames. the cast aluminum frames in the swr are much studier, and much higher in quality. the material the enclosure is made of has a lot to do with how good the cab sounds. swr uses high quality birch ply, i'm not sure what avatar uses.
  10. Quadzilla

    Quadzilla Supporting Member

    Whelp, there you have it. My theory shot down in flames. Wishful thinking. Guess u get what you pay for to a certain degree.... The Avatars still sound great so I'm happy!
  11. Hategear

    Hategear Workin' hard at hardly workin'.

    Apr 6, 2001
    Appleton, Swissconsin
    Why not? I mean, they can clone a sheep!

  12. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco
    Well, I just ordered an Avatar B410 to use while I get the speakers from my Goliath II reconed.

    We'll see how closely they compare.

    BTW, the PAS speakers in the Goliath II are *heavy*. It was a pain to get them boxed up and shipped out.
  13. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Actually if you look closely you'll also see that the 2 cabs have very different porting. Looks live the Clone is rear ported, but the SWR has a long eden style on the front which runs along the entire length at the bottom.

    This would suggest a different box tuning, therefore a different resonant frequency of the drivers. In other words, the speakers aren't the same. Eminance may have used the same paper for the cone but the similarities probably stop there.
  14. No, the Avatar isn't an SWR clone, but it is a very respectable bass speaker system. The 10" drivers in the SWR are made by PAS, not Eminence. Nothing wrong with Eminence or Avatar... hell, I'd love to have an Avatar 410!!!! I want to be like SecretDonkey and stack them together!!!!:D
  15. ihixulu

    ihixulu Supporting Member

    Mar 31, 2000
    getting warmer
    I recently had a chance to A/B an Avatar 410 (rear ported) against my Aguilar 410. Let's look at the similarities:

    They are both 410s,

    They both use Eminence drivers,

    They both have a horn,

    They are both black...

    hmmm, yeah, they'll prolly sound the same...

    I found the lack of lowend in the Avatar distressing. I guess once you get used to a cab that pushes a lot of lows it's tough to go back. Yes, I can always add a 15 under it but then I'm schlepping 2 cabs instead of one.

    The Avatar has a lot of midrange presence which helped it cut through like crazy. It kinda reminded me of oldschool 412s which had most of their sound in the mids. I could approximate the tone by backing off on the bass eq through the Aggy.

    I imagine an 800rb into an Avatar 410 would be a punkers dream.

    For the price it is undoubtedly a great deal but it didn't really have a tone I liked.

    BTW, Who cares what brand the components of a cab are. If Aguilar told me they used Gerbilpants brand speakers and Buttmonkey crossovers I wouldn't care so long as the tone and warranty were there. Just because Avatar uses Eminence drivers doesn't mean they are or aren't as good as SWR, Ampeg, Aguilar, Carvin, etc....
  16. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Does SWR use Eminence speakers in the G III? They used PAS in the Goliath II which are cast frame with flattened sides (i.e. not round looking).

    I haven't messed around with a Goliath III but the two Goliath IIs that I used to have were tuned in the low 30s...32 or 33 Hz I believe.

    I haven't tried to determine what the T-S parameters are for the PAS 10 but WinISD has a "SWR 10" model in the database.

    The SWR crossover is much more complicated than what Dave uses. The SWR xover is 18 dB per octave (two caps, one coil in a T network) and while they claim 4 KHz, I can't for the life of me make the component values work out...it must not be a butterworth alignment.

    I have a B112 and C15 which I run on one channel of my PLX2402. The other channel drives a pair of cabinets that I built, a 1x15 EVM 15B and a 2x10 with a Fostex tweeter. The crossover in the 2x10 is actually a Goliath II xover that I bought on eBay. Both sound good to me.

    I once asked Dave if many people blew up tweeters since he only crosses them over at 6 dB per octave. He indicated that he's heard of very few problems... and IIRC it's been L pads burning out when the bassist turns the tweeter all the way down.

    Oh a couple of other observations...my Goliath IIs were made from 5/8 in plywood with lots of bracing inside...each speaker was almost in a sub enclosure. Don't know about the Avatars.

    Thanks Quad...no you have me wanting to peek inside a Goliath III:)
  17. Where can I get Gerbilpants speakers and Buttmonkey crossovers? I'm building this new custom basscab... I think I'll call it the "Mammoth Ass Mammal "