SWR Goliath II replacement speakers

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by shirojiro, Jan 31, 2003.

  1. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco
    Hi Folks,

    Well, I just blew one of the speakers in my trusty SWR Goliath II. Sigh. I did a search regarding reconing vs replacement speakers, and it seems like the price may be similar to do either.

    I had a few questions though.

    People on this board seem to dig Eminence speakers.

    Do any of you use Eminence Deltas or Kappas in an SWR Goliath II?

    How does on figure out the Thiele parameters of one's cabinet?

    What are the original speakers in this cab? PAS?

    I think that my cabinet achieves 8 ohms total by wiring 2 8's in series to get 16 ohms, and then placing the 2 circuits in parallel, netting 8 ohms. Does this ound right to you guys?

    Do I have to worry about phase correction if I wire like this?

    Sorry about all the questions. I was ready to send the cabinet out for a recone of all 4 drivers, but then I found the links to www.partsexpress.com and the Eminence speakers seem pretty reasonable.

    I also think I need a new Fostex horn...

    thanks for any help.

  2. Razor


    Sep 22, 2002
    Foster horn...

    How'd you damage the cab?
  3. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    I don't think you need a new horn, check the fuse first.

    You can always buy a new diaphragm for it, cheaper than buying a whole new horn.
  4. Razor


    Sep 22, 2002
    Yep....and shop around for the diaphram cuz SWR wants a fortune for them.
  5. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco
    Thanks guys. I didn't know that I could just replace the diaphragm.

    I bought the cab used a few years ago, and the horn always made a little crackling noise, so I turned off the attenuator and never really thought too much about it.

    To be honest, I don't know how I blew the speaker. We share a rehearsal space, and I'm hoping that it was indeed me who did it and not one of our roommates, because I'd be very upset if the latter were the case.

    At any rate, I use an Ampeg SVT400T bridged to 400w into the Goliath II. I may have overdone it with my octave pedal, but I never turned the onboard limiter off on my amp, and I use a bit of compression in mysignal as well.

    The only thing that I can think of is the octave pedal...

    ANy hints on sources for parts for the Foster horn?

  6. secretdonkey


    Oct 9, 2002
    Austin, TX
    Not sure if the Goliath II used PAS 10"s, but you probably couldn't go wrong with PAS. From SWR, a new PAS is about $130, a recone is about $75, and a recone kit is available for something like $30-$40.

    SWR is really good about keeping documentation online of their older products - you may want to check the website for info on the speaker type and wiring scheme. They're also really good about responding to email and answering questions by phone, IME.
  7. The replacement tweeter bulb, or fuse (if it's the same one as the GIII) is about $1.98 at your local auto parts store. It's located on the backside of the jackplate.

    The replacement tweeter diaphragm is about $25 from SWR or anyone else (from what I've found). This is significantly less than a new horn driver...

    If you're worried about phase, you can verify by touching a 9v battery to the cabinet's input (+ to +, - to -) and all 4 drivers should extend. If one retracts, that driver is out of phase.

    FWIW - Eminence makes great drivers from what I've heard, but I'd keep the cab OEM (go with PAS.)

    Good luck.

  8. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Are you sure that you blew a speaker???

    I bought a GII a year or so ago for only $200 because I thought one of the speakers was blown. Turns out the screw securing the terminal to the speaker frame was loose. The same screw connects the voice coil's wire to the terminal...loose screw = intermittant connection and raspy sound, especially at moderate and above volume levels.

    Check that out and while you're at it, check the other three speakers as well. I found several loose terminals in my cabinet.

    As for the TS parameters...those are for the speakers themselves. You can measure the dimensions of the cabinet and determine its volume. It is tuned in the low 30s....32 Hz I believe from measurement of mine.

    Check those terminals first though...could save you a pile of $$$$

    Good luck and let us know what you find.
  9. Hmmm.... good advice!!!

  10. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco
    Thanks for the advice, guys!

    I checked the speaker terminals, and mine are soldered.

    I'm going to contact SWR and see if I can get some reconing kits. I do like the sound of the cabinet, so keeping it OEM would be nice.

    I'm still curious about the Eminence drivers though. I've heard a lot of nice things about them. Anyone out there using them in a Goliath II?

  11. I'd just re-cone the originals.I dont think Eminence 10s available to the public have as low a resonant frequency as the PAS originals.Avatar sells the Foster horns new for $25 .
  12. rok51


    Sep 2, 2002
    Crawfordville, FL
    Martin Sound sells the diaphragms (PN 595) for $17.90, retail.

  13. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    The wiring is soldered to the speaker terminals? Weird, I've only seen push terminals...but then again I haven't peeked inside many Goliath IIs.

    Are the speakers cast frame? If you bought the cabinet used, perhaps the drivers aren't original.

    Are there any markings on the magnet, frame, back of the cone etc.?

    What makes you believe that you blew a speaker? Does it sound fuzzy when you play through it? Does it feel scratchy when you push on the cone? Any thing else?

    If the cone doesn't rub when you gently push on it, did you check the securness of the connections at the crossover? The connection that holds the banana jacks to the rear plate also connects the crossover circuit board and woofer wiring together. If you're using the 1/4 in. inputs, the wiring from those goes to the crossover board then to the banana jack/woofer wiring connection.

    I'm really suspect of all of these multipurpose bolted connections that SWR used (and probably still uses).

    Please check these things and let me/us know what you found.
  14. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco

    Let's see -

    the speakers are cast frame, but without any identifying markings.

    I think (thought) I blew a speaker because it sounds like a fuzz box even at low volume.

    I checked the connections at the crossover, and they're all tight.

    I brought the cabinet home, and in the quiet environment of home, when I push on the speaker cones, there is NO scratchy noice... :confused:

    I plugged in my amp, and it still sounds fuzzy.

    I tried: different basses, new batteries in my active basses, different amps (3), different cords, different speaker cables.

    Still sounds fuzzy. :mad:

    I took apart my Fostex (it's marked that way - not Foster...) horn, and the diaphragm is intact, except there's a little bump of extra plastic on the inside of the dome.

    Anyhow, now I'm a little confused.

    On another note, does anyone know how hard it is to recone speakers at home?


  15. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Have you tried more than one amp?

    BTW, Foster and Fostex horns are one in the same...

    The process of reconing isn't that difficult...assuming that that is all that needs to be done. If the center pole is out of alignment or something that's another story entirely.

    The key thing to remember in reconing is to keep the voice coil centered on the pole piece.

    And you need to make sure that the gap is free from foreign material before you put the speaker back together.

    As far as I know recone kits usually include the shim/shims that you need. Beyond that it's a lot of gluing, waiting and a little bit of soldering.

    I don't know if you can buy the recone kits for PAS speakers though...

    I've never reconed a speaker from scratch but have had the pleasure ; - ) of reinstalling the motor (surround/cone/voicecoil/spider) when I had to remove/reinstall dislodged magnet assemblies. It's not easy, or fun at the time, but the results have been satisfying.

    If you can get a recone kit, give it a try...however, you should think about the false economy of trying to do it yourself and destroying a recone kit, then having to pay someone to do it for you.

    Good luck.
  16. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Is this the same GII that came without a port tube?
  17. shirojiro


    Jan 24, 2001
    San Francisco

    Yeah, this is the problem that I'm trying to avoid. I'm decent with my hands (aside from playing bass, I'm surgery resident in real-life), but I'd rather not pay for a reconing kit and botch the job.

    I'm waiting to hear back from SWR to see if I can get PAS recone kits. The trouble is, Eminence Kappa pros are available for ~$80-90 US, and apparently, these are very nice speakers. I do like the sound of the original speakers though. It looks like reconing and replacement may cost similar amounts.

    I tried 3 different amps and got similar results.

    I was wrong about my speakers though - they have a model number on the magnet that corresponds to the stock PAS speakers.

    Glad to see that someone searches the archives! It turned out that the port tube was in place. I just didn't realize how large it was.

    I spoke to a friend of mine who is a VP at Guitar Center, and he claims that in general, unless the speaker is very special, they suggest replacing blown speakers. He then suggested that I move up in power, to which I replied, "of course I'd like more power," but I can't really afford new speakers and a new amp right now.
  18. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Nah, no archive search...I remember from our offline Bottom Line discussion.

    I PM'd you with an alternative...check your messages.
  19. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Of course a VP from GC would recommend new speakers...even if he is a friend.

    There is a certain logic to it...the GII is an old cabinet so if one of the speakers is shot, it's a logical assumption that the others aren't far behind. If you're a gigging pro, popping for either new speakers or a new cabinet makes sense. If you just play for fun and only gig once or twice a month, going the economical route makes sense to me.

    If you're sold on eminence replacements, perhaps it would be best to sell your Goliath II (being honest of course about its condition) and buying a brand new Avatar B410. It's loaded with Eminence Beta 10s, has a Foster/Fostex tweeter and the new ones are front ported (like a Goliath III). They're like $330 plus shipping direct from Avatar www.avatarspeakers.com and come with a one year warranty. You could choose your impedance...4 or 8 ohms (I'd go with 8 regardless) and you could probably get $200 or so for your existing Goliath. This means that the new cab wouldn't cost you much more than a couple of recones or one new PAS...

    Food for thought.

    Or buy a good used Goliath III or other 4x10.
  20. Does anyone know of a source for reconing instruction?