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Talented Musicians drowned by the marketing of monkeys

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by mlowe, Apr 2, 2005.

  1. Is it just me that is sick of hearing marketed crap while there are killer musicians with killer music that are hidden from our view?

    The only way I seem to be able to find good rock/jazz fusion music here is by listing the players and searching for other albums there on. It has worked to some degree but when all you hear on the radio is the same junk over and over it's hard to keep your colection diverse and fresh.

    I'm not in anyway against the main stream music, I have hundreds of CD's of it but it's every so common that we are almost force fed programmed what we will be aware of in terms of music.

    How can we buy others music if we can't get some exposure to it. And they say "oh we can play that because no one knows them" Duhhhh :mad:
  2. I think the average joe can't listen to certain styles that are more out-there or just plain original. Personally, I consider myself extremely open-minded to music, increasingly so as the years go by. I listen to many different genres that I can see people disliking, but I enjoy them anyways. Not everyone can listen to long prog albums. Not everyone can listen to 30 second hardcore songs. Not everyone can listen to pop punk. Similarly, not everyone enjoys jazz/fusion. Simple blues/jazz classics are one thing, but when you get to fusion or anything jazzy that isn't upbeat and simple, some people just zone out.
  3. This is going to be an interesting thread!!

    Well, the current state of things suggest that it really is all about the industry of music. Obviously, money drives just about everything involved. Commercial radio is aimed at the market that will generate most dollars, cd shops have become huge multinationals just like the record companies.

    My first job was in a small, independant record store and we sold an enormous range of music from all over the world, and prided ourselves on the hard to get or unusual releases. At the time, there were about five other shops in this area that were also indie and specialists.

    Now, there is one. Every other cd store is a "megastore" with racks and racks of Celine Dion and Nelly.

    Over the last ten years, I have found that websites such as Pitchfork are very good resources to find out about unusual or more obscure bands and releases. And of course there's TB, which has alerted me to excellent music by Mars Volta, Porcupine Tree, Cave In etc.

    If the world would just wake up and see that the whole Idol concept is second rate dreck then I would be a happy man.....
  4. I was just sorting out my CD's today and when I look at the diversity of music it makes me wonder.

    Randomly picking there's

    Bryan Adams, Earth wind an fire, Police, Icehouse, Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Marcus Miller, Bill Evans, Tribal Tech, Frank Sinatra, Tom Jones, Toto, Petite Blonde, Van Halen, Teddy Pendegrass, Kiss, Stanley Clarke, Faith No more, Lionel richie, Supertramp, UB40, Rage against the machine, Luther vandross, kiss, rush, four tops, Pastorious, chilli peppers, queen, George benson, james brown, Cold Chisel, AC/DC, the corrs, Dire straits, Simple minds, talking heads, Ultravox, Dream Theatre, Lenny white, dave weckle, sade, blonde, pink floyd, Billy holiday, Stevie wonder, kd lang, nirvana, peral jam, billy ocean, Miles Davis, the platters, john denver, Jeff Berlin, Didier Lockwood, Dennis chambers, spandau ballet and Infectious grooves for a start.

    Hows that for diverse?
    There must be more good music out there but how do you fnd it.

    I'm thinking it would be a good idea to setup a web site that promotes bands without any greedy aspect. I mean it's for the artist who needs to be heard and for those who want to listen to something different.

    Maybe this already exists but if it didn't it wouldn't be hard to do.

    Imagine being in a band and being able to put up your work and have people download it at a modest cost that goes direct to the artist.

  5. :D Gonna get some heat there, m. Lionel Richie???

    But seriously, your collection sample is a lot like mine - extremely varied. I have been a music nut all my life, and bands such as Skunkhour, Augie March, Eden Atwood, The Go!Team, Dan Kelly and Arcade Fire wouldn't exactly be household names, yet their material is exceptionally strong.

    I made a suggestion that Paul make an "Album Review" board, so that TB'ers can review their favourite albums. Not sure how that is going, any feedback Paul??

    Seriously give http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/ a look - its a great resource for off-mainstream music reviews and news.
  6. kjones


    Dec 4, 2004
    This isn't a complete answer, but some of the better music magazines help turn me on to music I like. No Depression, Jazz Times, Downbeat, Relix, even Tracks all help me find new acts. A combination of Bass Player and TB turned me on to Mars Volta.

    You're right, radio is a wasteland, but there are a few (very few) exceptions.
  7. QORC


    Aug 22, 2003
    Elberon, New Jersey
    stuff on the radio isn't automatically bad. I like some of it. I think some of Matchbox 20's stuff is fantastic. Hoobastank too. Three Doors Down. nothing wrong with this stuff. *shrugs*

    I think of what music was like in my teens (the 70s). AWFUL stuff. Pop, disco, weird stuff ("Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road" was a big hit as was crap like "Billy Don't Be A Hero" and "Afternoon Delight", let alone "Boogie Oogie Oogie", just to quickly name a few). I think rock radio is vastly more interesting now than in my youth, in my opinion.
  8. QORC


    Aug 22, 2003
    Elberon, New Jersey
    here's our marketing monkey. he works pretty well!

    Attached Files:

  9. I remember a good example now, there is a band here called hoodoo gurus. They are very good. They were getting air play on a non commercial radios station here who is very supportive of local small time bands.

    At that stage hoodoo gurus were not very well known but only among the pub scene.

    I think it was RRR that was playing them for at least 6 months. They then started to get popular so the main stream commercial stations started playing them. All of a sudden one of these main stream stations quoted that they "discovered them" whoa. Right.

    Another one is Kasey Chambers. She's a really smooth country singer here. Very modest and nice song writer singer.
    She even wrote a song about why the stations won't play here music despite she has a very strong following.

    This song was two years old and then all of a sudden it went number one I believe. Again the mainstream stations started playing it. For what ever reason they just crap me off.

    How many songs out there would hit number one if we could hear them. Chicken or the egg.

    It's not the mainstream artists I have a gripe about, I love heaps of their music. It's just the ones that couldn't give a rats butt about it they are only in it for money or because their marketing. Kylie Minogue is one that I can't stand. Or Britney Spears, you couldn't tell if it's them singing or a chainsaw cutting a granite boulder. They are all about electonics and marketing and not an ounce of talent.

    David Bowies bass player, now there is a chick with some real talent, she plays bass great and sings like a bird. Do any of you know her name? It's the whole big picture that stinks.

    Another example here I can't mention names but a youn girl I know whos father is a record producer. All of a sudden she's a well marketed professional singer. Trust me, she couldn't sing to save her life. Meanwhile there are some excellent female singers out there that can't get a shot.

    They even gave her a different name to cover up that she was the producers daughter. How lame.
  10. One of the things I like about being at college is that from time to time they bring in lesser known musicians to play. I'm not much of a pop guy, but a few weeks ago they brought in one guy who was awesome! There is actually a whole band hes in, but it was just an acoustic show. Just him and the bass player(not too bad). Hes truely independent, started his own label just for his music.
    Its sad that the indie bands don't get the respect they deserve. Even in indie-radio stations around me are horrible. They do the same thing as the corporate stations, except they play the same indie bands over and over again.
    In a book I'm reading about the music industry there is a quote, that is absolutely true. "They created the radio for music, now they create music for the radio."
    A good example of how slow corporate radio stations are- My Chemical Romance. The radio stations never played anything off of their first Eyeball Records album. A year later they sign to Reprise, and about 2mths after their second album comes out corporate radio ruins their music forever! All of a sudden they are huge, and I can bet 75% of the people that heard of them after they got played on the radio have no clue that they even have a first album!
    There is an awesome band from the city where most of the rock radio stations (both indie and corporate) are located. Do they get play? No! Because the radio is full of the same over-played bands.
    My collection is varied, major artists- lesser known artists. Most of the time I think the lesser known are better, they're music hasn't be tainted by corporate radio/record companies.
    Anything from hardcore, to pop, to at least 100 cds of country(from my country/redneck phase, which has long since passed).
    David bowies bass player is awesome! I've been trying to nail "Under Pressure" for a little while now.
  11. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I'd have to differ with you on this one, In 76 the grammy winner, I beleive record of the year was AJA (Steely Dan). In my first two years of college (77,78) I could turn on FM rock stations and hear, Weather Report, Jeff Beck, Stainly Clarke, Led Zeplen,Stevie Wonder and Jaco all in the same hour. Was there crap in the 70's? sure, But I'll bet on any given week the charts ( thats top 40!) contained at least 6 good songs in the top ten! Did we have our Ashlee Simpsons, off course but that wasn't all we had. Now, You can look at the top ten now some weeks and have a tough time even finding a singer, much less a songwriter or muscian! And the public could give a s*#@, thats the saddest part. If the videos cool, and the dancers hot thats all that matters! I know theres good stuff out there but it is a lot HARDER TO FIND!! :scowl:
  12. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Retired Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    It's always been that way. Think back to the 50s and 60s (if you can). Even bands like the Beach Boys and all the popular groups like the Archies, Monkeys ... all of them were studio musicians, and mostly the same ones. All the groups were the same musicians! Just ask Carol Kaye and others.

    The bottom line is that musicians don't get rich if they can't sell music. The producers know what the hook du jour is, and mold the bands to fit the market. Yes, there are a lot of utterly superb, "true to their art", unrecognized, poor musicians out their. I guess it gets down to whether one does music for the love of it or for the money of it. There is a bit of "selling out" that has to be done to "make it big." If it were me, I go for the sellout.

    Some groups, like Steely Dan, seem to sell out less, but even they tend to follow current trends, to a certain extent.
  13. jazzbo


    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    I like some of the stuff on the radio. It's fun.
  14. Matt Till

    Matt Till

    Jun 1, 2002
    Edinboro, PA
    MTV wrecked TV and Radio... so now you have the internet...


    Look around, you'll find something.
  15. WalterBush


    Feb 27, 2005
    Yuma, Az
    Full disclosure, I'm a certified Fender technician working in a music store that carries Fender, Yamaha, and Ibanez products among others.
    In the SF Bay Area the major rock station in town closed down recently. Why? The station's owners found out they could make more money by playing Mariachi and other traditional Mexican forms of music. That's fine, but I expected the other two rock stations in town to pick up the slack. One is the classic rock station, so no luck with new acts there, the other is all indie all the time (that is, the "breakthrough" indie acts such as The Donnas, who are no longer indie.) No more new hard rock or metal. When I called to complain, both stations said, "There's no market for that music here."

    I find this odd, since one of the bands I play in is hard rock/metal. 90% of our set list is cover tunes, and we have to turn down gigs to avoid double booking or killing ourselves since we all have day jobs.

    The sad truth is that the music business is a business, not a jobs program for musicians. We have to work 3 times as hard at music to even make minimum wage per hour, and it seems much harder to convince investors to put money into a new radio station than, say, a Starbucks or a Home Depot. If I knew a solution, I'd be rich.

    Instead, I just hunt for bands I've never heard of, check bargain bins, ask friends, and occasionally do random web searches for new music.
  16. DaftCat


    Jul 26, 2004
    Medicine Hat
    I agree with many of the views above, but you must realize(and I am sure many here will/already do) that the Internet revolutionized how many of us are exposed to the new music(interpretation open).

    www.shoutcast.com is a GREAT website for getting new tastes.

    www.songfacts.com is also a dandy place for learning about new groups, etc... check their forums.

    Also consider the popularity for pay-service radio(thing XM, Siruis). It tells the players that people are rejecting radio and more and more people are sick of the "morning zoo" crap.

    My .02 worth... :)

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