tambura bridge

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by heavyfunkmachin, Jan 7, 2009.

  1. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    hi all,

    I had an idea, i really likethe way classical indian instruments like the tambura sound, their overtones (harmonics) awakening... this is caused by their very particular bridge, the strings "buzzes" on the bridge so to speak...

    i wanted to do something like that on bass.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jivari
     
  2. pilotjones

    pilotjones

    Nov 8, 2001
    US-NY-NYC
    Two similar situations on bass: first, a standard fretless bass with low action has the same or similar effect at the fretboard, commonly known as "mwah" sound. Second, there's a more expensive, and convertible to "normal" implementation in the Neuser/ABM bridge.
     
  3. Darkstrike

    Darkstrike Return Of The King!

    Sep 14, 2007
    So, maybe a fretless sound, with a fretted bass?
     
  4. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    yeah!!

    i knew somebody out there think about somethink like this...

    the nfs bridge is kind o what im talking about...

    in classical indian instruments they did it with a piece of wood, curved, and it takes the fretless mhaw concept to a whole new level... the yeven use pieces of silk to improve the heigh... i want to achieve that... somehow...

    any other ideas?
     
  5. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    i hope this BUMP makes you post a reply.
     
  6. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    What exactly are you looking for in this thread? I don't think anybody has done a jawari bridge on a bass, so if you did this you'd be blazing a trail, which means you'll have to figure some things out on your own. I wanted to do a jawari bridge on my 8-string, which could be defeated when I didn't want it, but it was just too complicated.

    You might look into the surbahar, which is the bass range sitar. It might give you some insight into the specifics of the jawari with thicker strings.
     
  7. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    that´s exactly the kind of info i was looking for in this thread.

    :)

    im sure someone else out there has sailed this waters!
     
  8. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    I don't think they have. Just give it a shot. I can see a couple of potential pitfalls: the strings are likely to wear into the jawari faster than lighter strings on a sitar. This means you might end up having to reshape the bridge a lot more often. Also, you will need to adjust the curve to be correct for each individual string; the variance in bass string gauges is much more than that of sitars or tamburas, so you won't be able to do a uniform curve across the bridge.
     
  9. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    yeah... i´ve read something about it:

    "What is Jawari?

    The characteristic buzzing sound of a sitar or tanpura is produced by the string vibrating on a flat bridge with a gently curved surface. “Jawari” literally means “glimmering” or “jewel-like”. The art of jawari is the shape, the angle, and the curve of the angle at which the bridge is filed. How much of the string rests on the bridge, and how steep are the curves in the back and front of that area of contact all affect how much buzz there is and how clear the sound is.

    We usually think of there being three kinds of jawari.. There is the “open” jawari sound of Ravi Shankar, which is the most “buzzy”. There is the more closed sound of Nikhil Banerjee, which is less “buzzy”. And there is the very closed sound of Vilayat Khan, which is the least “buzzy”. As you play, you wear grooves in the bridge and start to loose whatever original jawari sound you had. This is the biggest bugaboo of sitar players. The ratio of sitar players to artisans capable of doing jawari is thousands to one. Ravi Shankar used to bring Nodu Molluck on tour with him to do jawari. Some sitarists try to get around this by having several grooves on their Ma string, one for practice and one for playing. Hardcore practicers put something (plastic, film negative) under their bridge when practicing scales to save their jawari. The point is that the jawari of a sitar can radically affect the sound. A mediocre sitar with an excellent jawari can sound good. An excellent sitar with a worn or badly done jawari can sound bad or uninspiring."

    but i was thinking about some kind of soluion... metal jawary?

    i dunno... looking for ideas!
     
  10. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    A metal jawari might give an extremely bright sound, but give it a shot. I've heard of bone being used as well.
     
  11. pilotjones

    pilotjones

    Nov 8, 2001
    US-NY-NYC
    I thought I had read they ivory was once once used, and has been replaced by camel bone?
     
  12. Sounds like a bass version of a Gotoh Buzz Bridge would work, but I don't know if they make them...
     
  13. Perhaps a very hard wood like lignum vitae could provide the tone of wood but not wear as much as other woods.


    But some of the "sitar-guitars" like the Jerry Jones and Rogue models use a metal Jawri and it doesnt sound overly-bright.

    I'm somewhat interested by this aswell, even more than usual as I am going to India later this week.
     
  14. azure

    azure

    Dec 19, 2008
    Indiana
    Carbon fiber maybe? Very stable and not as harsh as metal.
     
  15. vbasscustom

    vbasscustom Guest

    Sep 8, 2008
    you might use flats for the strings and get less wear on the bridge, just a sugestion
     
  16. uethanian

    uethanian

    Mar 11, 2007
    i foresee some problems. its just complicated with bass, given the differences in string gauge, and the need for tuning adjustment at the bridge (remember that sitarists are only fretting one string, and they can move the frets to to adjust for tuning). i had a similar thought once...my idea was to have a small 'buzz bridge' piece glued to each string saddle so that it lightly contacted the string...but then i realized how much fine tuning it would require, if it could work at all. also, its not enough to have something just touching the string, the string really has to be resting on the thing.

    maybe you could cut replace the existing saddles with a carved piece of wood or bone, something like this
    Photo10-1.jpg
    (you can tell i spent a lot of time drawing it) the thing coming out the back is the screw thru the back of the bridge that adjusts string length. idk what bridge you have on your bass, but it might work.
     
  17. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    hi all,

    i find the string saddle idea extremely appealing, maybe the best thing will be that, substitute te string saddle for one with a parabole instead of a round one... as shown in picture :)rolleyes:)...

    may be if the metal was flexible (just a bit), the parabole could be adjsuted with a saddle.. .pic 2 ( :rolleyes: :rolleyes:)

    i just wonder how could this be done...

    by the way, i found a great tutorial about the jawari

    what do you think?
     
  18. heavyfunkmachin

    heavyfunkmachin

    Jan 21, 2005
    "pics"
     

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  19. uethanian

    uethanian

    Mar 11, 2007
    be careful about the curve...i think a parabola is the wrong way to think about it. it should start out more or less flat, and should very slowly curve off (my picture is very exaggerated, its hard to show this). i'd start off with a block of wood, and gradually sand it by hand until you reach the sound you want. the finished product shouldn't look noticeably curved. and remember that as you fret a string higher up the neck, the area of contact (not so much a point but a section) on the saddle will change. i'm sure individual saddles would work on a guitar...bass, its hard to say.
     
  20. Taylor Livingston

    Taylor Livingston Supporting Member Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    Oregon, US
    Owner, Iron Ether Electronics
    This is very important to consider. You may need to space your frets differently than normal, since the scale length will actually be changing slightly depending on where you are fretting.