ted weber and bass amp applications

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bon viesta, Sep 12, 2021.


  1. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    (TLDR: despite my recent purchase of a good bass rig, i’m looking at some things from ted weber to try out when i earn some job money next year. how is their 6s100 amp head? and how would a good square porting for a 1x15 inch cabinet from them (26x26x13) work out with an appropriate speaker?)

    i recently purchased a bass amp rig, using up my savings from an earlier piece of work i’ve done earlier this year. its a 4ohm 800 class d watts into an 8 ohm 400 watt 410 cab. needless to say, i’ll be louder than i’ll ever probably need for right now.

    i’m really really itching to get a job of my own next year when i turn 16, because other than making money being awesome, i still want to experiment with small scale bass cabinet things. and i want to have my own money to do these things with, while of course annoyingly consulting TB every time i do it. i know i just recently bought a bass set up, which will serve me well if it doesn’t sound like crap, but when has that stopped a single person on this forum from buying other things and trying things out? i’m looking at all of you!! plus i really want to learn about amplifier construction, and the more simple things that will be useful to know in the future.

    so anyways, i found this head called a 6s100, with 100 tube watts output. and it’s real cheap too. i thought that when i got my own pocket full of money next year, it would be a great little head to have. i’ve heard that it begins to distort fairly early on? and by changing the rectifier from tube to SS you can get more clean output from it. so there’s that. if anyone has any experience with that head, tell me about it please.

    and for the cabinet, they got a 1x15 cab (26x26x13, 1/2 ply) with a hybrid open/closed back design. that just basically means that 1/3rd of the back of the cab is bolted in and you can remove it if you want. i wonder if that would rattle… well, anyways, i’m planning on experimenting with porting that cabinet if i put anything inside of it. porting basically = greater efficiency if done correctly, which is what i would want if i’m only putting 100 watts into it. i’m thinking the porting would be sort of a 70s fliptop sort of deal, with the baffle having a rectangle hole in the bottom covered by grill cloth.

    tell me though: do speaker sizes have distinct port sizes, or is the size of the port dependent on every aspect of the enclosure and speaker? i might buy a cheap little sealed ebay cab and try different port sizes (which would come from a calculator) with the same speaker and see which sounds the best.

    anyways, here’s my rough outline of my next evil scheme. enjoy/be very afraid! and give me your thoughts, please.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  2. Lo-E

    Lo-E

    Dec 19, 2009
    Brooklyn, NY
    Cabinet porting is dependent upon both the volume of the cabinet and the characteristics of the speaker you put into it. It’s a deep topic. If you’re planning to build from scratch, you may want to go with tried-and-true designs such as the venerable E-V TL-606.

    Using cabinets and, to a lesser degree, heads that were designed for guitar can often lead to disappointment for bass. You might get lucky and do okay but you may be better off looking for bass-specific designs.

    That said, Weber is a good company and they make good products. I believe Mojo currently makes a bass head kit but I’m not sure Weber does.
     
    abarson and bon viesta like this.
  3. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    i see… my main reason for wanting to go with a weber cabinet to go with the weber head was just because it means the head and cab would match each other. but, i’ve also been looking at custom cabinets with the hopes finding one with similar features.

    i heard that fearful cabinets can be customized a whole bunch, and that there are many boutique style cabinet makers who can make a sorta pseudo-late 60s looking cabinet that would go great with a head like the one below. anyone have any recommendations? i know fearful cabs are made by only certain people to be sold, and i don’t think i could find a way to build one from scratch.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
  4. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    boston, ma
    The Weber cabs aren’t anything special. Their bass speakers are okay but they don’t give any of the T/S specs so properly building a cab is going to have to be empirical. You can use their amps with any cab though so if you want something prior or designed to match just talk to a custom builder.

    I’ve used their bass 15 in the past, it sounded good, but it was also in a low powered open back ampeg combo which couldn’t be properly tuned no matter what. I believe there was a user on here who had tested their 10” SVT style speaker among others in a quest to find a CTS like driver, I think they rated it favorably.

    The 6S100 is the sunn 100S preamp right? The power amp isn’t quite the same as far as I can see from the schematic, doesn’t appear to have the ultra linear output transformer.

    I built a Weber 6O100 last year. It came in with dented output transformer bells, improperly drill chassis, a bunch of frozen/broken pots, and very mismatched power tubes. They give you a layout and schematic but no other instructions, so the quality of the amp will depend entirely upon the builder. The remaining parts were okay quality, I swapped some jacks, pots, resistors, etc. The transformers are now heyboer instead of their own so aside from the dents I didn't have any complaints.
     
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  5. I know you can get a bassman kit in a few flavours, whether you consider that a bass amp or not is a whole other can of worms I suppose.
     
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  6. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    thanks for the post! i won’t bother with any of the weber cabinets, as there are already a few cool custom cabinet builders i’ve found that aren’t too outrageously expensive. they sorta look like old 50s pa cabinets.

    as for the amp, it is modeled after the sunn amps, though there seems to be a few minor differences between the two as per a thread i read the other day on a tube amp forum. the thread was actually about how to modify the amp to be a better bass amp, and there’s some circuit talk that i don’t understand that seems to help the OP by the end of it. i’ll link it if anyone wants to decipher it.
    Tightening low end/adjusting tone - Weber 6S100
     
  7. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    You're confusing fEARful with FEARLESS. Sorry for the caps, but that's how the designer spells them.;)

    The fEARfuls always have been and still are open season for DIY building, there are free complete plans and even cut kits so construction is a mostly glue and screw excercise. You can buy them from a Greenboy authorized dealer as well if that suits you better. And of course since they are DIY builds many mods are possible, even if often ill advised.

    The FEARLESS cabs are not a DIY thing, period. You pay your money to an Authorized Builder and you receive a (typically) fully built cab, with various cosmetic options depending on which builder you go with. If using an AB most people opt for the FEARLESS line over the fEARfuls, but you might prefer the simpler and more old school Dualie 215 or Bassic 115.

    A 100 watt tube amp is a pretty ambitious first build, starting with something 30 watts or less is generally a better call IME and IMHO. I have many years of experience repairing and building amps and my current 100 watter has still thrown a number or surprises at me. But if you have the affliction, carry on!
     
  8. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    no no no, i’m not the one building it. my dad will build it, and i’ll tag along and to learn something from it along the way. he’s been building amps and guitars for a while, and he’s an electrical engineer so he knows what he’s doing with electronics. no one will die!! it just might take a month or two.
     
    AlexanderB likes this.
  9. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    also thanks for the distinction being made there. what is it with highly efficient bass cabinets and fear?!?
     
    AlexanderB likes this.
  10. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm a year and a half into mine right now, but I do have a lot of other projects going on at the same time. Something "simple" like having a chassis cut on a CNC machine can easily take a couple of months, especially these days. And since I prefer circuit boards to "hand wiring" techniques, that aspect can be a real time suck too.

    Doing a project with your Dad would be really cool in any case. Best of luck with it all!
     
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  11. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Heh, I'll ask Dave Green about that the next time I talk to him. ;)
     
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  12. coreyfyfe

    coreyfyfe Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2007
    boston, ma
    If you’re looking for a project kit there are a number of options. What you get with many of them is a fun experience and in the end a (hopefully) functional amp, but you’ll pay for the experience. From a pure budget point of view you’ll often pay more for many kits than you would buying a functional used production amp, but the experience is half the fun in most cases.

    Weber has a number of 100ish watt amps which can work as tube bass heads. The 6S100 is a sunn inspired design, the 6O100 an orange/matamp, there are a few Marshall and I believe a hiwatt inspired kits in that wattage range as well. Weber kits are definitely some of the most budget friendly out there, but they come with no instructions and often (as mentioned about my 6O100) require a few tweaks/repairs/replacement parts to get right.

    Trinity has the triptop and ceriatone has the aunt peg if you want something ampeg flavored but lower power. Ceriatone has other 100 watt models which might pique your interest as well, they’re a bit pricier than the Webers but from the one I’m building now the parts quality seems a bit nicer. The first kit build I did was a trinity triwatt, great kits and good instructions. Generally pricier than other vendors though.

    As mentioned further up mojotone also has a bass amp kit. They have the schematic available, seems a kind of standard fender style tone stack and uses the JTM45 output transformer, so maybe fender style sounds?
     
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  13. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    a year and a half?!! wow. i saw a few people said their 6s100 took a week or two. luckily no metal work should be necessarily required for a kit from a place like weber.

    also, i think i’ll ask my dad to (in a while after i actually can pay for anything) take a look at that forum thread to see if anything means anything to him. i’m sure the voicing could be made slightly different to accommodate bass.
     
  14. yodedude2

    yodedude2 Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2005
    san antonio, texas
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  15. steelbed45

    steelbed45 36 on Ignore Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2011
    Nolanville, TX
    That sounds like a great idea. A Dually (or Dually-T) with the matching cloth grill = wowzers.
     
  16. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    the dually looks extremely nice actually. put on some weber tolex and grill cloth and bam!!! a matching, super efficient bass cabinet. though i’ll have to double check the dimensions so i know the 23” wide head won’t hang off the edge.
     
  17. dBChad

    dBChad

    Aug 17, 2018
    Daytona Beach, FL
    If you want to port a Weber cab (if you haven't decided on using a different cab design already), glue that back panel in place. A port does nothing on an open back design. For the port to work as designed (use an online calculator), the rest of the cab needs to be as airtight as you can get it. Also, when calculating port size, subtract port volume from cab volume or it won't be tuned to the target frequency. Also, don't tune your port to the Fs of the driver: it will damage either the speaker or the cab (or both).

    Speaker building can be pretty fun though! 20191019_083344.jpg Rig of doom.jpeg
     
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  18. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2020
    Austin, TX
    Ted Weber’s guitar speakers are arguably the best ever made.

    But what is preventing you from exploring speakers from more bass-centric brands?
     
  19. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    As always, it just depends. This is a prototype and not even the projected final build. Custom chassis and head case, custom faceplate, custom circuit boards, custom knobs...yada yada. And I started with an existing commercial tube power amp board from a discontinued line, so I had to make custom wiring harnesses. Now that I finally have all the parts on hand I expect I could knock out the build in around two days or so.
     
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  20. bon viesta

    bon viesta

    Dec 10, 2020
    who said i’m working with speakers??? i said cabinet, guys. not speakers. an empty cabinet was what i was talking about. honestly i didn’t really know weber made bass speakers.

    i think i’m going to go with, in some form, a ported bass cabinet by either a kit or (the more expensive but also easiest/more reliable option) by buying from an affordable boutique cabinet builder. i have plenty of time to look and find and research and think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2021
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    Primary TB Assistant

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