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the hype of Neodymium magnets

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by rusmannx, Oct 31, 2004.

  1. rusmannx


    Jul 16, 2001
    have you noticed that these mags weigh only a fraction of conventional ferrite magnets? i noticed the eminence delta 10" has a 56oz mag, while the Neodymium version is only 7 oz!

    have those of you with cabs using Neodymium magnets noticed any kind of diffence (other than weight) then those without?
  2. elros


    Apr 24, 2004
    Proprietor, Helland Musikk Teknologi
    I have neodymium magnets both in the pickups of my new bass, and in my new AccuGroove Tri-112L speaker cab, and the sound is fantastic! Also, as you say, the speaker is very light weight (but the bass isn't very much lighter).
  3. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    There's no "hype", as you noticed you can shave multiple pounds off a speaker by using them instead of ceramic magnets.

    Just as some folks still insist that (expensive) Alnico sounds better than ceramic, I'm sure some will carp about the "sound" of ND. They have been used successfuly for almost 20 years now in dynamic microphones, but it's only recently that making magnets large enough for speakers has been practical.

    I think most bassists will embrace them for the weight savings, especially in multiple driver cabinets where the weight saving can be huge (you can shave over 24 pounds off an 8-10 using the Deltas).
  4. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Not only do you save weight in the magnet but the frame can be quite a bit lighter as well.

    As fof the sound - it is not about the magnet, but about the application of the driver

  5. Whappo Grande

    Whappo Grande

    Feb 9, 2002
    Santa Clara, CA.
    Manager: AccuGroove Speakers
    Just like standard speaker/magnet configurations; as long they are designed well with good components, neodymium magnets should not perform any different.

    AccuGroove Pro Speaker Cabinets
  6. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    my only experience with ND has been the epifani cabs. the slight difference in tone (difference, not better or worse) is negligible when you can play catch with a 3x10 cabinet. :cool: If i ever went the epi route, i'd spend the extra bucks and go with the ND magnets.
  7. Larzito


    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    I just shelled out the major bucks for an Epifani 310UL...47 lbs. I have no earthly idea if it will hold up or not, but did I mention it is 47 lbs...less than even the lightest 210 I know of? I have plenty of cabs with conventional heavy drivers, so I thought the 310 was too sexy not to give it a try...if it fries then I'll go back to lugging heavy cabs and make an aquarium out of it or something. I'll keep you guys posted. Somebody's gotta find out if the earth is really flat.
  8. slinkp


    Aug 29, 2003
    brooklyn, NY, USA
    well, actually there are some 210s that are marginally lighter, but that's still really impressive.

    EA NL-210 = 44 lbs
    Avatar B210 Neo = 44 lbs
    Schroeder 1010 = 45 lbs (1210 = 47 lbs)
  9. Larzito


    Aug 1, 2000
    Dallas, Texas
    Yep, I checked out the Schroeders at the Arlington guitar show...a few booths later, I ran across a used Epi 310 NYC with conventional drivers (70lbs). While I liked the Schroeder 210, I didn't care for the 1210, which was my motivation for attending the show in the first place...too midrangey. I've decided my fav cab config is one with multiple tens. I have a Bergie mini stack that gets it in most situations, but still doesn't do what a big box 410 will do in terms of cut and punch. I'm hoping the 310 will approximate the 410 sound with half the weight. If the EpiUL is to my liking, I can always add a second one (if you guys will donate to the get Larzito a second Epi310UL fund) for monster gigs. Think about it, two cabs at 47lbs each fronting 610's. I'm bummed practice was canceled tonight, the Epi was gonna get a workout...I'll keep you guys posted on its performance. My goal is for this to be the ideal medium sized cab to gig all but large/outdoor venues. Phsysics is still physics when it comes to sheer volume/driver surface area. I am curious if the neo's will stand the test of time and the occasional drunken volume contest with whiskey drinking monkeys...I mean guitar players/drummers. Believe me, if the cab can't cut it, I'll let you guys know!
  10. rusmannx


    Jul 16, 2001
    here is a great site which might teach you something about neodymium magnets.

    i guess the currie temp of these magnets is 300F, much higher then i anticipated. if you get your cab that hot, your doing something wrong.
  11. luknfur


    Jan 14, 2004

    there is definitely a difference in tone of ceramic or alnico pups. Haven't had Neo's. Seems most of the valued vintage speakers had Alnico magnets. Regardless, the weight savings in Neo's is dramatic. Unless there was something markedly undesireable about them, I wouldn't pass one by.
  12. stingray69

    stingray69 Talkbass Legit

    Aug 11, 2004
    St Louis Area
    I have been using the traditional Eminence Delta 10's in a Peavey 2x10 cabinet for about 3 months, and purchased two of the Avatar B210 NEO cabinets in the last couple of weeks. Obviously, there is the weight difference. The Avatars are MUCH lighter than the Peavey cabinet loaded with the traditional Delta 10's. As far as tone, I don't know if it's a fair comparison because of two factors, the Neodymium Eminence speakers are rated at 55Hz at -3db whereas the traditional Delta 10's are rated at only 65Hz at -3db. So, the Neo's go much deeper audibly than the regular Delta tens. Secondly, the Avatar cabinet itself has porting built into it, where the Peavey does not. That said, there is a much greater advantage in fullness that goes to the Avatar cabinet - even if the cabinets were identical, the NEO would still be more efficient in the low end because of the better specs in that area. And by deeper, I do not imply "muddy" at all - simply a fuller sounding cabinet. The Foster tweeter in the Avatar's have plenty of gain to maintain as much high-end balance as you please. I believe the Neodymium magnets will be here to stay in the bass market. The advantages speak for themselves. Hope this helps.
  13. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    This has been debated here before and at times it has become quite heated - pardon the pun.... There will be those who will tell you that by it's nature, neodymium can lose it's magnetism permantely if subjected to enough heat. The question then becomes, can the heat generated by music reproduction cause this to happen?

    I've been running a neo experiment since December 2001. I used the cheapest Neo's available (P.Audio SN10MB's) initially in a 2x10 bass cab. I recently transplanted the drivers into 1x10 speakers for a vocal PA. I've gigged them extensively and subjected them to every type of torture and you know what....... they are still magnetic. Surprise, surprise.

    Furthermore, I've been keeping a close eye on other Neo speakers being used out in the field, mostly by people who use them for small to medium PA and lighting companies. We have 8 speakers of various brands and sizes out there being hammered several times a week. So far we've only had one neo failure, and that was from over-excursion, more specificaly from user error by an inexperienced operator. As we know, over-excursion has absolutely nothing to do with the magnet.

    Rather than believing what people tell you 'might' happen, I set about finding out myself. The sort of temperatures generated in a typical gig environment are simply not hot enough to hurt neo speakers.

    Nowdays, I don't even look at speakers unless they've got neo magnets. I've proven to myself they lack nothing in terms of tone and/or reliability and carrying around anything heavier just doesn't make sense any more.
  14. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    I'm guessing that I'll have to continue using ferrous magnets on my venusian gigs............... :p
  15. Petebass


    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Someone told me Venus is air-conditioned now. Apparently not....
  16. I picked up an Avatar 410 last week and used it on a gig last weekend.Having a 410 cab that only weighs 65 lbs.and still kicks and sounds good has got me sold.No more hauling two smaller cabs to the job.The avatar weighs 3 lbs less than my Eden 210XLT and the XLT can't do the standalone job near as well.
  17. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Of what I understand, the new "smoke-free" laws on Venus have really been hurting the club scene

  18. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    Fremont, Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    FWIW, I own cabs from Epifani, EA, Accugroove and Dr. Bass which have neo-based drivers, and I have driven them with a variety of amps (iAMP 800, Walter Woods Ultra, 3,000w rack rig) under a variety of conditions (some of which were stinking loud!) for mostly full-length gigs (some as long as 8 hours, with me playing in 2 out of 3 bands, and with my gear pumping away the whole time). I have not experienced any problems at all (even with the 8 hour gig occuring on a hot day in August), and I greatly appreciate the diminished weight of these cabs.
  19. 10 years from now..people will wonder why anyone ever used anything but Neomydium magnet speakers.

    Who knows...speakers with magnets may be outdated then???
  20. mikemulcahy


    Jun 13, 2000
    The Abyss
    Poida, have you tried them in the 18" drivers yet?