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The name "POD" and its long term effects :)

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by musicelectronix, Feb 28, 2008.


  1. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    But see, there's an example of mis-use. You essentially had two amp voicings in series, which will not make either of them sound good. in order to properly use amp modeling, you have to eliminate other amp coloration from the equation.
     
  2. I have a really complicated love/hate where all gear is involved and there are opinions, buzz words or brands that do set me off. Comparing any modeler, knock off or reproduction to an actual vintage piece is simply ridiculous and for any one that really believes the claims I sell some amazing electric socks that will make you irresistable and rich, only 3 payments of 49.95 plus S&H......:spit:
    OTOH modelling can be a good thing because there are only a few of those original amps, effects or instrumrnts to go around and modelling allows more people to have a taste.
    So as far as modelling goes I am not against it and even use it on some occasions but could never see virtual models ever replacing the originals in my mind or heart. For Example I am using a multi effect unit at the end of my pedal board that has several acceptable amp and effect models (many I own), I find that much more convenient than hauling a 40 unit pedal board, 3 or 4 really large bass amps and cabs to every gig.
    If I were doing more session work I might get one of those Line 6 basses because it would be nice to have access to many of those instruments I could never afford to collect and would hate to have to haul a trunk of them around.
     
  3. musicelectronix

    musicelectronix

    Jul 8, 2007
    Hüstın, TX
    Lead Designer, Zeibek Boutique Pedals
    Wow! It seems thread made a wrong turn somewhere. I read all your comments.

    My real question was, when a fellow musician is reviewing "the real thing", she/he compares it with her/his POD. In that moment, I am pushed away from that review and frankly question the accuracy of it.

    There is no doubt the digital modelling came a long way. I really like the re-valver that came with my Cakewalk Studio Edition and seriously considering to purchase its full version (Mine has only one preamp and one power amp module). They should sound good, otherwise people wouldn't use them in professional records.

    But then again, this discussion shouldn't be about how good they sound and if they are the future replacement of regular amps (which I disaggree along with every bone in my body). It is simply a question of if someone compares other stuff with the POD, how healthy can this review be?
     
  4. Tired_Thumb

    Tired_Thumb Guest


    Meshuggah is 100% digital.
     
  5. winston

    winston Supporting Member

    May 2, 2000
    East Bay, CA
    The POD was one of the first viable modelers, and it's continually grown in functionality while remaining affordable--that's why people keep comparing it to other gear.

    I don't own any Line 6 products, but I have used a fair amount of modeling gear and software. I approach it from the angle of looking for inspiring sounds, not copping x bass through x vintage pedal through x boo-teek amp.

    Using this mindset I have come up with cool tones and tunes that can be instantly recalled, that I couldn't have conceived otherwise, without spending a fortune or an eternity. I also love the all-analog route, but I have come to realize the most important factor is the person playing the gear.
     
  6. JanusZarate

    JanusZarate Low End Avenger Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 21, 2006
    Petaluma, CA, USA
    IMHO, it can actually be a superior review, given that they meet one condition:

    They have to have owned, or at least played extensively, the amp they are comparing it to.

    Otherwise, the review is rubbish.

    I think that people who own/use the gear they're comparing the models to are perhaps more qualified than the rest of us to give their opinion on POD gear. In fact, when I try out my guitarist's X3, I'll probably be posting my opinions of the GK 800RB model in the Amps forum.
     
  7. F-Clef-Jef

    F-Clef-Jef

    Nov 13, 2006
    Neenah, WI
    I've had countless basses / rigs/ amps over the last thirty years, some high end stuff, some junk. I now play a Variax bass through a Pod xtL, and absolutely love the sound I get. I agree with Dave M, except for some different reasons. One being, I'm 45 years old and still gig on weekends, I REALLY don't want to haul around a SVT, or any other equipment that weighs more than 50 pounds! I get a great tone, lots of versatility, and an easy set-up / tear-down. I could buy pretty much whatever equipment I want, but it really comes down to convenience, for me. Plus I can sit at home in the comfort of my little studio, and mess with my sounds and jam out to my hearts content, without hauling and setting up gear for an hour first.
    I know this might hit a few nerves, especially on a bass player forum, but the reason people like music is for the SONGS, not the sounds of the instruments. Of course, I could be completely wrong about everything...
     
  8. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    It depends on the intentions of the writer. For example, I have owned several tube compressors. The Yamaha Magicstomp contains emulations of tube compressors. They sound pretty good. The next time I buy an expensive tube compressor, I am probably going to A/B it with the Magicstomp, and I'm probably going to make a comment like "for $600 this tube comp should have had a richer, warmer tone than the cheap modeler, but it doesn't" -or- "wow, comparing these two units really reminds me of how much better the 'real deal' sounds." It can be very relevant.

    OTOH I see a lot of posts from people who are defensive about their budget gear, or who are genuinely content with whatever they have and feel affronted by other people who say there's something better out there. Both of those kinds of people IMO/IME tend to make less-than-helpful comments when they insist their POD is just as good as anything else.
     
  9. musicelectronix

    musicelectronix

    Jul 8, 2007
    Hüstın, TX
    Lead Designer, Zeibek Boutique Pedals
    Just for the record, I waited about two years before purchasing my first all tube amp head, which was not a mesa, but it was a peavey. I worked hard to put some extra money to purchase it, so I know how painful having a limited budget and demanding the best of you can do.
     
  10. Tired_Thumb

    Tired_Thumb Guest

    Some people are always going to love their Chevys, and others are always going to love their Caddys. In the case of musicians, it does seem like the less competant musicians usually write the most passionate reviews about gear, and there are incompetant musicians who play both PODs and more expensive gear. Any rational thinker, either way, will realize that digital and tube gear have their pros and cons, and depending on the situation of each, they will make a rational choice.

    Actually, what does constitute an unhealthy review is "OMFG THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD CONVERT TO ALL TUBE GEAR!!!!!", or "OMFG THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD CONVERT TO PODS!!!!!" As I said, any good review will weigh the pros and cons of each piece of gear, no matter what it is, and come up with an educated decision about the quality of the gear for its intended purpose.
     
  11. F-Clef-Jef

    F-Clef-Jef

    Nov 13, 2006
    Neenah, WI
    I mostly read music equipment reviews written by chiropractors...:D
     
  12. Would'e?

    Would'e?

    Mar 27, 2007
    Virginia
    I have to say I agree with just about everything that Dave has written in defense of modeling technology.

    I would add one other small advantage: Instant recall of settings. My main amp is a Peavey BAM 210. Aside from the sound quality, versatility, power and reliability of that particular piece of gear, one of the biggest selling points for me was the simplicity in recalling the magical "that sound" (s) that I was able to dial in. Just save it to the amp's memory and recall it at the touch of a switch. And with the Peavey, you've got the added bonus of the WYSIWYG interface so that a quick glance at the LEDs on the amp face tells me exactly what each of the knobs is turned to on that preset. I never worry about knobs getting bumped out of place or forgetting where I need to set all of the knobs when I switch sounds.

    I'm glad to see that Peavey is back in the modeling game with the VYPYR guitar amps and hope we will see some new bass modeling gear (dare I hope a PODXT Live-like device with the WYSIWYG interface) soon.

    All of the newer modelling stuff, Line 6, BOSS's COSM, sounds pretty good to my ears and like Dave said, even if it only got close, the trade-off for convenience (and not being able to tell the difference at all in a mix) is more than worth it.
     
  13. I own the Bass Podxt Pro because I got it for $325 NIB on ebay.

    I own the Guitar Podxt Bean because I got in for $200 NIB on ebay.

    I own both because often I record my ideas late at night in my office with headphones on, IMHO for this purpose you can not beat this type of gear.

    I always use/used much higher quality gear in the studio(s) I have been to.

    I have never & probably will not ever used any of this digital modeling stuff live.

    FWIW, you would be surprised how many big time engineers use stuff like this in the studio. Not for "all" the guitars etc... but when time is of the essence it is a quick way to get multiple layers easily, and when properly used in the right context I am willing to bet most of us could never tell.

    Btw, my heart lies with analog gear, it always will.
     
  14. Geddyfleaharris

    Geddyfleaharris Supporting Member

    I am not a modeller guy. For some people I am sure it will work. I just am not sure that the modeller can really capture all the essence of the item it is modelling. If you like/love modelling great. Personally it is not for me. My limited use of it in a multi FX bass pedal turned me off.

    As Mystic pointed out - if the guy reviewing the modeller has never used the real stuff then the review means nothing.
     
  15. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling the people using these amateurs. It's the amateurs that do use them that I don't like. Which seem to be the majority of the players I've seen using POD's.

    I use a Yamaha magicstomp myself, though not for the amp modeling, so I can appreciate the effort that it takes to program these things. It takes a bit of focus to not get lost in the myriad of options. Usually something plug and play will be much better for most uses, simply because it does just one thing(hopefully well) that the player can turn on or off and nothing else.
     
  16. Swift713

    Swift713

    Dec 4, 2006
    Florence, Ma
    As Mystic pointed out - if the guy reviewing the modeller has never used the real stuff then the review means nothing.[/QUOTE]

    I have to disagree, in part...
    As a guy who's never used the "real stuff" I'm not especially interested in whether or not a model sounds just like the real thing. I only care if it sounds the way I want to sound. I'm not trying to sound like some specific equipment, I'm trying to play music. I'm sure there's better equipment out there for the sounds I'm trying to make, and I'm always looking, but in the meantime the digital modeling device is working pretty well. It's very flexible, very reliable, very affordable.
    But, I will agree that I have no valid opinion as to whether my Zoom sounds anything like an Ampeg or an SWR or whatever.
     
  17. Swift713

    Swift713

    Dec 4, 2006
    Florence, Ma
     
  18. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    They killed his master in the temple.
     
  19. I do agree, the world will be a wrong place where a POD or other modelled sound becomes the point of reference and is valued some how better than the original.
     
  20. If you don't get a sound you like from a Pod variant, then just don't use it and move on, no need to bash it. *Plenty* of pros and hobbyists get great recorded and live sounds from it. I'm not implying that I think y'all just checked out the horribly-overprocessed presets, but it took me a while to tweak a good, clean bass sound. But when I found it, it was a very very pleasant surprise. I don't own a POD anymore, I actually now go straight and use pure-software emulation, I think it sounds even beter ;)
     

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