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the police on SACD... awesome!

Discussion in 'Recordings [BG]' started by iloveloosey, Mar 6, 2003.


  1. iloveloosey

    iloveloosey Guest

    Sep 9, 2000
  2. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    What do you gain with SACD? Is it a higher resolution and/or sample rate?
     
  3. Philbiker

    Philbiker Pat's the best!

    Dec 28, 2000
    Northern Virginia, USA
    It's a ridiculously high sample rate through a new Sony proprietary digital format called Direct Stream Digital (DSD). Sounds better than CD by a long shot to most audiophiles. Some are also multichannel so if you have a compabitlbe 5.1 setup you've got surround music. "Kind of Blue" sounds fantastic in multichannel.
     
  4. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Ah I see.

    Well, I'm not gonna judge without having heard it but, I question whether we really need it.

    When I listen to Kinda Blue, I'm listening to the music, not listening for the quality - and to me CD is easliy good enough.

    YMMV.
     
  5. iloveloosey

    iloveloosey Guest

    Sep 9, 2000
    likewise those who didn't want to judge without trying but, they questioned if we really needed

    electricity
    cars
    airplanes
    innoculation
    etc.

    to them

    fire
    feet
    balloons
    leeches
    etc.

    were easily good enough ;)
     
  6. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    LOL - it isn't *quite* the same deal.
     
  7. Philbiker

    Philbiker Pat's the best!

    Dec 28, 2000
    Northern Virginia, USA
    THe starry-eyed audiophiles at places like www.audioasylum.com would differ.
    If higher quality reproduces the music significantly closer to the actual sound of the performance, that wouldn't make a difference?

    I have a 96/24 DAD of Cannonball Adderly's "Somethin' Else". When I play that I could swear Miles is standing there in my living room playing his horn. It's uncanny. My "Kind of Blue", "A Love Supreme", and "Straight, No Chaser" SACDs have the same kind of impact. The difference really is noticable on my system.

    That said, I'm not replacing most of my Miles Davis collection with SACDs, the CDs do sound darn good. I'm also not buying the Police SACDs, the box set suffices.
     
  8. iloveloosey

    iloveloosey Guest

    Sep 9, 2000
    dude, do yourself a favor and at least try one of the police sacds. at places like circuit city or best buy one can be had for $10-$12. believe me, the difference is like night and day. plus they found the original master tapes. i mean, you're a bass player and you have a sacd player. it's a no brainer.

    i don't mean to come off like a zealot but i really mean it regarding the difference in quality from the previously released recordings (which i have as well). the consensus among most (and myself) at audioasylum is that they're among the best soundings sacds yet released. much better than the sony sacds.

    btw, the "classics" disk is a hybrid cd/sacd, which means it will play on a regular cd player as a cd, and on a sacd player as an sacd. since it just came out, and is of the "greatest hits" nature, it's probably on sale just about everywhere. it might be a good place to start.

    walking on the moon...
     
  9. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    The thing is - you can only get as good as is on the original analog master. I would say that the bottleneck here is the original recording, not the reproduction media.

    But, I can't really say too much, as I've not heard the SACD versions.

    Anyhow, seeing as I don't have an SACD player, and how SACDs are significantly more expensive anyway, I'm not gonna rush out to buy them.
     
  10. iloveloosey

    iloveloosey Guest

    Sep 9, 2000
    but, generally speaking, having a sacd is having the original analog master. (notice i didn't say "like")

    not bad for $12-$18.

    still, in this case, hearing is believing.
     
  11. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Ok. Well, I love the Police - I've got all five albums on ordinary CD. If at any time I have a few quid spare, and something to play 'em on - I'll pick up the Synchronicity SACD (Synchronicity is definitely my favourite Police album) - and give it a whirl.

    What can you play SACDs on? Are there dedicated SACD players? Or just an ordinary DVD player? Are SACDs essentially DVDs that just contain audio, or what?
     
  12. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Hmmnnn... does that mean you can solo individual tracks and remix as you desire? That would be incredibly educational, although I imagine you're talking about the original master mix.... still, I can dream ;)

    Wulf
     
  13. iloveloosey

    iloveloosey Guest

    Sep 9, 2000
    there are all types of sacd players, starting at about $200 and going of couse all the way up to in the thousands. since the sample rate of any sacd player is so high, i'm perfectly happy with my modest little sony dvp-ns500v (about $200, now its been replaced i think with a progressive video version, see the link below). really it's a dvd player, but it plays sacds too. honestly, one of the best investments i ever made. interestingly, the dvd/sacd combo units tend to be the cheapest. since you're in england i'm not really sure what your options are, but you can take a look at these to get an idea...

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t..._1/102-0426717-0968159?v=glance&s=electronics

    http://shopping.yahoo.com/shop?d=zd...mid:6,pid:1990967547,pdid:6,pos:6/dmss-browse

    cheers!

    ps i'm sure any high-end audio shop would have a demonstration area / listening room in which you could test any number of sacds.
     
  14. Philbiker

    Philbiker Pat's the best!

    Dec 28, 2000
    Northern Virginia, USA
    FYI, the original 3 track analog machines of the 50s have significantly more resolution and fidelity than modern 16bit 44.1Khz digital PCM. They have hiss, that's for sure, but the actual music is amazingly detailed.

    You need a special player to play SACDs, I have the same Sony dvp-ns500v model that iloveloosey has. It's out of production now, but if you're in the market for a DVD player, you may want to consider the successor which can be found for under $250.

    I'm not enough of a Police fan to buy these discs yet again. I'm sure the SACDs sound better than the CDs but I don't have the $$ to buy them again. I do have the multichannel DTS "Every Breath You Take" CD and it's really cool.

    Also, you won't notice the difference in SACD unless you have a fairly nice stereo system. Unless you're a real stickler for sound quality it's not worth the upgrade IMO.
     
  15. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    That was my original feeling. At the moment I don't have a very good stereo system. When I get my monitors (for my own recording) - I'll be listening to CDs over them - I guess that qualifies as a "fairly nice stereo system" :D

    I'm not a stickler for sound quality (IMO, audiophiles who insist on 24/96 are taking it too far) - I'm just a stickler for good music, well played, well produced.
     
  16. wulf

    wulf

    Apr 11, 2002
    Oxford, UK
    Likewise, I'm actually quite happy with listening to MP3's... so I guess I don't qualify as an audiophile :cool: ...

    Wulf
     
  17. Jason Brown

    Jason Brown Supporting Member

    May 1, 2000
    SLC, UT
    No. Ordinary players don't play SACDs. DSD is a different technology. Most (if not all now) SACD players play DVDs though.

    DVDs use Pulse Code Modulation (same as CDs but at a higher sampling rate). There is a high-resolution format called DVD-Audio which is currently competing with SACD for the audiophile market. There are universal machines that will play both now.


    I'm happy with the Police SACDs, but I'm still waiting for something to impress me as much as my Zombies and Creedence discs.
     
  18. TRU

    TRU

    Apr 12, 2002
    Northern Europe
    About the whole idea of SACD...

    First: Even with 16 bits the least significant bits get easily lost somewhere along your signal chain. Or at least you have to play the CD _very_ loud to hear all the 96dB of dynamics. And then most of todays music is compressed into a few dB's...

    Second: So 20kHz is not enough for you? Have you ever had your ears checked for how high you can hear? Even 16kHz is amasingly high frequency.

    If the SACD sounds better than a regular CD, it may be a better quality mastering. The CD masters of late 80's can't be as good as the best ones made today. Some SACD's have also been eq'd to sound more pleasing. How is that for having the original master at your home?
     
  19. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    First: The midrange resolution on CDs is so much worse than analogue tape (reel to reel, not cassettes) and vinyl that the improved resolution with SACD is a siginificant improvement. CDs are so smooth sounding, really lacking in graininess and authenticity, particularly with acoustic and classical music.

    Second: The issue with going higher than 20kHz is complicated. Although people appear to be unable to hear individual tones above that frequency, the higher frequencies are perceived by the brain and contribute greatly to the spatial positioning of the sounds in a mix. Also, CD players use a low pass filter to cut off all the frequencies above 20kHz. This unfortunately causes artifacts at frequencies within our hearing range, thus distorting the music. BY shifting the low pass frequency higher, the artifacts are pushed higher up, out of our 'normal' hearing range.

    Personally, I'm happy enough with CD to not go through the hassle of changing. Ever since I stopped upgrading my hifi system I've found myself listening to the music more and the sound less. But if I had lots of money I suspect I'd change to SACD, so if you can afford it, go for it. And if you're buying a new CD player, you might as well get an SACD compatible one if it sounds as good with CDs as a conventional CD player of the same price.

    Alex