There's another storm brewing!

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by pilotjones, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Hopkins

    Hopkins Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 17, 2010
    Houston Tx
    Owner/Builder @Hopkins Guitars
    How does the grain line up if you join the two straight edges together, with the broken edges on the outside? If you machine the broken edges straight, the grain is still not going to match perfectly.
  2. Smilodon


    Feb 18, 2012
    Can't you just glue the outer edges of the board together. They look reasonably straight making it less wasteful to make them straight enough for glue.

    I see there is a small crack in one of the corners, but that could be placed where the neck will be.

    edit: Ooops! Beaten to it. I'm too slow. :(
  3. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Thanks both, good idea. I'll take a look to see if the grain allows for that, since it is not straight all the way down - there is some bend to it. That's why I was figuring that working to reassemble the original break might be most hide-able.

    The sides are not dead straight, but they are fairly close.

    This was originally intended to be either a one piece or a bookmatched back, so it wild be best not to have random visible seams.

    In the end if I can't get something that looks good enough for the back, or if its not wide enough, I'll go looking for another piece of wood.
  4. Smilodon


    Feb 18, 2012
    Make mistakes look intentional. ;) Maybe lay in some contrasting wood? It may look a bit odd, though.
  5. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Yes, I could put in some separating stripes. But the idea for this is to have horizontal layers only, with no arbitrary dividing of the faces.
  6. Smilodon


    Feb 18, 2012
    Yeah, i agree with that one.

    How bad is the damage on the brak line? is the any way the flaws can be filled or the piece to be planed down to remove the flaws without making the board too thin? The strength of the join shouldn't be much of a problem in this case anyway AFAIK.

    Maybe the edge damage could be steamed out before gluing?
  7. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Agreed that strength is not a major concern here. Appearance is.

    I didn't look at or do anything with that tonight though. I surfaced boards. Pics later.
  8. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    I'll make this quick since it's late.

    Today I Learned:

    1. A planer is great for cleaning up boards that have been resawn

    2. It is not great at thinning .150 boards down to .075
    :eek: :mad:

    3. That if you don't use any dust collection because when you run the planer and the vac at the same time, the breaker keeps blowing, then your dust mask will get used up pretty quickly

    What technique can I use to thin those .150 boards down? Is there any trick with the planer? So far all I can think of is going back to the saf-t-planer.
  9. MPU


    Sep 21, 2004
    Valkeala Finland
    Drum/thickness sander is what I use for thicknessing thin or/and figured pieces.
  10. SaintMez

    SaintMez Commercial User

    Jan 3, 2010
    Meridian, idaho
    Blood Brothers Guitars - Luthier, Porter Guitars - Contractor
    Just out of curiosity, did you attach the piece to another board when sending it through the planer? I've had some success thinning pieces down for veneer by using a larger backing board. Although I wish I had a thickness sander to do this sort of thing.
  11. MrArose13

    MrArose13 Commercial User

    Aug 15, 2011
    Atlanta Georgia
    Owner/Luthier:RoseBud Basses & Guitars LLC
    Hey PJ, what I would do with the makore is not what you want, so I’ll not try to comment on that and see what your ingenuity comes up with.

    As far as a technique for getting veneer thin with a planer, (dose that Dewalt planer have the spiral cutter head on it? I don’t know if that will matter, but mine doesn’t.) Most planers that I know of only allow cutting down to a ¼” I believe, or something like that. So I use a ¾” piece of MDF with a couple of cleats on the bottom (hanging off the ends of the in feed and out feed sides of the bed) to keep it stationary as an auxiliary bed; this brings my actual wood up higher and allows the cuter head to cut thinner, (imitating a thicker piece of wood.) Snipe is usually problematic, but that probable has more to do with my planer. Before I built my luthier’s drum sander(and even still really), I would finish it up with some block sanding. Which I use a cheap hand joint plane, (with a 14” shoe, it may be the $35 dollar job you can get at HD) and 80 grit sand paper adhered to the sole (not using the blade of course) to fine tune it a little. It’s more work than just running it through an on market drum sander, but it works. Hope that helps, or at least gives you food for thought.

    Looks like SaintMez beat me to it while I was typing this up and chasing my kids. Eah… whata ya gana do? Post any way, lol :p

    Keep up the good work :)
  12. Rickett Customs

    Rickett Customs Commercial User

    Jul 30, 2007
    Southern Maryland
    Luthier: Rickett
    Does the piece have figure in it?, probably not good for a knife planer anyhow (creates tearouts in the figure).......

    Do you or can you get access to a drum sander? That's the way I'd do it, use a piece thats 1/2" thick or so, thinly (sparingly) glue the piece together with a paper towel in between.
    This way you can pry it up, when finished and sand off the paper towel.

    You could thinly safe-t-plane it the same way, if you don't have access to a drum sander.
  13. Pete, you should really invest in a good respirator and the correct woodworking cartridges. Those little disposable ones don't create a good fit to your face and let lots of dust through. The 3M 7500 series with a magenta P100 filter is what you want for woodworking, grab a Yellow/Magenta filter for duel spraying and woodworking use. Toss the cartridge when it starts getting harder to breath, that means that it is starting to get clogged.

  14. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Re respirators: Thanks, i'll look into those.

    Re thinning veneer: Yeah, I knew that it's a good idea to mount it to a backer board. I wasn't sure how to do it without getting too strong a bond Thanks for the paper towel tip - I'll try either that or sparing use of mounting tape. I only have a planer though, no drum sander, and there is a wide quilt figure. So, we'll see what happens.


    Today I think i'm going to take a shot at jointing the makore.


    I took a museum trip yesterday. So much amazing stuff! There were woods in furniture that quite literally made my jaw drop. But But here are a few music- or instrument-related items:

    This piece has the general color scheme of the new bass, just in different proportions

    It seems that triple neck guitars were invented at least as far back as 1830

    There were some amazing examples of inlay work, both in furniture and in instruments. One I thought was most beautiful, and at the same time being impressively complex but not gaudy was this. Anyone who is intending to inlay a fingerboard, here is something to shot for

    This keyboard instrument (a double virginal) had an interesting pair of inscriptions below the keyboards
    LouieV2 likes this.
  15. Beej


    Feb 10, 2007
    Vancouver Island
  16. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Yeah, I may have to try that, if the planer doesn't work out.
  17. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    I took a look it using the suggestion of putting the outside edges of the makore to the center, in order to not lose too much wood width when joining, since the outside edges are relatively straight.

    Unfortunately, it's a no-go. Aside from the fact that one edge has about 3/16" of wane on the face side that would need to be cut away, the figure itself causes a problem. It seems that the figure in the original board increases from light at one side to significantly heavier at the opposite side. Plus, towards the heavier side, it goes to full QS orientation, and some additional rays appear.So when putting the two outer edges together at the proposed center, you get a bad mismatch.

    So, I've got to try to salvage it in its original orientation. Before working on the break, I've got to glue up the split, which is about 10" long. I don't like the idea of putting all that tension back into the board, but here goes.

    The split
    That's sitting on waxed piece of aluminum foil. Hopefully the glue won't stick.

    Glued and in clamps

    After putting on the side clamps, I noticed that it was significantly bowed with the cup on the face side, so I applied the cross clamp to the tabletop. When it is out of the clamps, we'll see whether this caused the split to open up on the face. I used CA, but I am giving it plenty of time to cure.
  18. pilotjones


    Nov 8, 2001
    Since I can't match the outer two edges, the original break myst be repaired.

    My intent was to cut the two board halves along complementary straight lines, to give nice edges for gluing. But the break is a wavy line, and it is not clean break, and the board is not much wider than the bass design, so that would not work because too much wood would be lost in cutting back to a straight line.

    So, I decided to cut the boards as close to the break as possible. To do this I needed a routing tempate. So I
    - traced the break "wave" onto MDF, to use as a cutting template
    - cut the MDF with a bandsaw and smoothed it

    Then, before I could do the routing, I used a hand chisel to clean up the nastier parts of the break edge, since I didn't want to offer loose bits of wood to the router to chip back. That looks like turning this

    into this.
    (Loose chips left in position for artistic effect. :rolleyes:)

    Then I set up the two halves on a table, with the template over one, and a gap between them that is somewhat smaller than my smallest bearing-follower router bit.

    Here's the setup:
    Tip if you ever do this: I used pairs of matched drill bits to set the separation.

    After routing I was glad to find that there was no chipout, even though the router was climb milling on one side and conventional milling on the other. However, I did find two problems. First, the template wasn't smooth enough, so there were ripples on the cut boards. Solution: more sanding on the MDF before a second pass. Second, one board was partly lifted due to the clamping method, which introduced more irregularities. Solution: for the second run, I carpet taped one board to the bench, instead of pinning it down with a 2x6 as I did previously.

    Here's the setup:
    For this cut I spaced the boards 5/16" apart so with the 3/8" router bit I was only cutting 1/32" or so from each side.

    This cut worked well. Here are the boards placed together
    The dark area there is the mess from the prior CA crack repair.

    and here is the body template place on top of them - there's just enough wood there!

    Next is the gluing. I decided to use some brown TB2, which will hopefully work out. Here it is in the clamps.
    There's a waxed piece of hardboard beneath the piece, for support.

    I wasn't able to get the pieces perfectly aligned vertically, so it will have to be run through the planer again, and I'll see whether I end up with a usable thickness -- as well as seeing haw the repairs look.
  19. Nice repair, nice to see your persistence to keep this piece of wood. I know from my own experience it takes a lot of time, but it's very rewarding when you succeed, also gaining the experience how wood behaves and how to control most of it. Thanks for sharing your process in such detail!