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Thicker D & G string?

Discussion in 'Strings [DB]' started by Kevinlee, Jul 6, 2001.


  1. Kevinlee

    Kevinlee

    May 15, 2001
    Phx, AZ..USA
    I'm still trying to get this string thing worked out. Right now I've got Helicore med. pizz on the E & A and Spirocore Weich on the D & G... Getting closer but not quite. Is there possibly a steel string (rope core) that has a thicker diameter for the D & G then say helicore or spirocore? I'm looking to approximate that gut like feel but with steel core strings. Francios, (who has been much help in this matter) suggested possibly trying Jargar, but after researching them further I just don't think I would be happy with the short sustain... So any other suggestions?

    Thanks
    Kevinlee
     
  2. Monte

    Monte

    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
    Kevin,

    I'm not really sure what you are wanting, because gutlike=short sustain. If you like long sustain, stay with Spiros or Helicore pizz. Gut like would indicate composite core like Obligatos, Velvet 360's, Innovation (I think hb?), etc. My suggestion is to try one of these and see if you really mind the shorter sustain. I found I liked it when I started analyzing players sounds that I loved such as Rodney Whitaker, Mingus, Haden, and found that they all had shorter sustain, either through gut or composite gut. My .02

    Monte

    "The blues isn't about feeling better. It's about making other people feel
    worse, and making a few bucks while you're at it."

    Bleeding Gums Murphy
     
  3. Kevinlee

    Kevinlee

    May 15, 2001
    Phx, AZ..USA
    Monte

    Thanks for the tip, I'm beginning to realize that to achieve what I'm after a compromise has to be made somewhere as to the kind of string I use and what I want out of it. At this point I was just curious if there were any steel core strings that were more gut like in size (diameter) not necessarily the sound. I just like the way the thicker strings feel. I would like to try the Obligatoes but I'm using a magnetic Pick-up so I have to stick with steel. I do have a K&K P.U. as well which I am seriously thinking of going back to. It has a warmer tone than the magnetic but at high volume it is not quite as precise sounding.

    Kevinlee
     
  4. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Obligatos are steel over nylon, so I don't think there'd be a problem with a magnetic pickup.
    As for the thicker steels, you can always look at heavy-gauge variants of known brands, like Helicores. But they're more difficult to play.
    The LaBella 7710 black-nylon tape over steel rope-core have a very nice thick gauge and super soft feeling. However you may not like their tone. (they're played by Ron Carter and Buster Williams)
    They don't work well with a bow either.
     
  5. Blaine

    Blaine

    Aug 4, 2001
    new york area
    I use a mag pickup sometimes and have found that Obligatos don't work but Innovations do. Hope this helps.
     
  6. Kevinlee

    Kevinlee

    May 15, 2001
    Phx, AZ..USA
    Thanks, what's the tension like on the innovations? Do you happen to play any slap? I'm currently involved in two projects, one jazz and the other rockabilly and I'm trying to find a string that I can do both with. And also is there more than one type of innovations string and if so which ones are you referring to.

    Kevinlee
     
  7. Kevin,I play Irish folk,country and some rockabilly stuff.I use the Innovation RB set,which is a black wound string(sorry don`t know composition)This string is really easy to play and probably just thicker than Spirocores,they are supposedly made for rockabilly,however some people hate `em some love `em........I like `em.
    I don`t know if they would work with a magnetic pickup,but it may be worthwhile checking their site.
     
  8. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    There is also the LaBella 7710 black-nylon on steel rope-core.
    Used by famous players like Ron Carter, Buster Williams and Mads Vinding.
    They are thicker than regular steel strings (the physical feel is quite gut-like, as Kevin wants), but have a more steel-like sound.
    If you like the contemporary sound of Ron Carter and Buster Williams, you may like them.
    I don't know how they would react with a magnetic pickup though.

    You can get them from Lemur Music. (http://www.lemur-music.com) 1-800-246-BASS

    Hope this helps!
     
  9. Blaine

    Blaine

    Aug 4, 2001
    new york area
    Hi Kevinlee,
    Regarding the Innovations. They feel about the same tension as Spiro Weichs but it wouldn't suprise me if they actually have a little more tension. The g and d are thicker and feel a lot better. I use the solid core "jazz"model.
    And the only slapping I do is to piano players.
     
  10. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Hi Blaine.
    I'd like to ask about the durability of the Innovations.
    Do they break easily?
    Do they last long?
    Any special recommendations?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  11. Blaine

    Blaine

    Aug 4, 2001
    new york area
    I find they last pretty long. I've never had one break. I've had my G on for a year and a half. I use the solid core on the g and d, the a and e get too dark on my bass so I use Spiros or D'addario hybrids on the bottom.
     
  12. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    Thanks.
    Is the metal wound part of the D and G strings reaching the pegs?
    I know that Thomastik warns that this part of the string must not reach the peg at all, or the string will break very fast. (for Dominants)
    I've experienced that breakage myself.
    Any warning from Picato about this?

    Thanks again!
    François
     
  13. Blaine

    Blaine

    Aug 4, 2001
    new york area
    I don't recall any warnings from picato about the windings. On my bass the bare string doesn't reach the peg.
     
  14. Kevinlee

    Kevinlee

    May 15, 2001
    Phx, AZ..USA
    Hello, what is the outer wrap of the innovation solid core? I now know they have a steel core but is the outside steel as well?

    Thanks
    Kevin
     
  15. The developer of the Innocvation strings, Lionel Davis put 140B's on my bass at the ISB convention. He says that he is no longer associated with Picato. Here is his web page http://www.innovationstrings.com/

    He was very particular about how he put the strings on the bass. He would wrap the string four times around the gear peg insuring that he did not wrap it over its self then he put the tag end through the hole and wound it to tension. They will make strings special order for those of you that have long string lengths. He also made sure that the bridge and nut grooves were wide enough for the thicker strings.

    I have said it before but it's worth repeating, Innovations have a vastly improved tone/sound volume and focus both arco and pizz over Obligatos and Helicors. Their tension is similar Obligatos with a greater bowing response. Another thing that I have noticed is that rosin does not build up on the string like it did on the other strings.

    David Kracz's teacher also had 140B's put on his bass at the ISB. I wonder how he likes them?

    Mark
     
  16. He likened their sound to the Velvet Animas I have on my bass when he heard it last
    week. But he had since put spirocores on that bass, as much as it pained him, on the suggestion of someone whose opinion he respects. It wasn't that he didn't like the strings, he didn't like them on that bass. In the year since he inherited it, the spiros are the fifth set he's tried on it.
     
  17. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    The Innovations use a synthetic core (kind of nylon), not steel.
    The outer wrap seems steel to me, and is flat, not round wire.
    (got a braided core G today)
     
  18. Did you get a 140B or 140H? I understand that they have a copolymer core. I don't know if it is braided or a core polymer covered by another polymer.

    Mark
     
  19. Francois Blais

    Francois Blais Supporting Member

    Dec 11, 1999
    Québec, Canada
    It's a 140B (braided core).
    The 140H (Hybrid) is the solid core.
    As far as I can tell for the moment, the tone is very strong, and the tension quite high.
    The diameter of this G string is thicker than my Original FlatChrome D!
     
  20. Francois,

    Are you using it on an EUB? What other strings do you use?

    Mark