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Thoughts on fingerings

Discussion in 'Orchestral Technique [DB]' started by TomGale, Oct 4, 2005.


  1. TomGale

    TomGale

    Jul 31, 2005
    American School of Double Bass
    Mark Morton did a Simandl Plus Workbook that he uses in his summer workshops and he posted it for a FREE download at the American School of Double Bass web - ASODB.Com. It has a lot of updated thoughts on Simandl fingerings as well as open hand technique and using the thumb above and below the octave. Can't beat the price!
    Tom Gale
     
  2. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    Get the book from Levinson too. Read the Simandl, Bille, Bottesini or any other book and try what works for you.. Different ways each time too. We are doing Shubert's 7th.. the big one in C.. I have several fingerings for various passages.. No book witll help me.. I need to do what works best. Also, it depends on the Bass I am using as size, strings length, shoulder height and shape and neck stand vary on every Bass.
     
  3. TomGale

    TomGale

    Jul 31, 2005
    American School of Double Bass
    That is correct. The more techniques you have, the better choices you will make. I use the closed hand (Simandl - with updated fingerings and ideas), open hand (4 finger, Franke, etc.) and the thumb positions above and below the octave. I put all that in my two books - Technical Foundation Studies, vol. 1 and 2. I had an interesting test about one year ago. We were doing a pair of concerts - Carmina Burana (sp?) and some Ravel. At 7:25, I was tuning for the 7:30 concert when my A peg shattered. So there I am - on stage with a tuning of low D and the d and g. Believe me - I used every technique I knew based on the above. The only note I missed was a C# harmonic on the A string in one of the Ravel things. I faked that....
    Tom Gale
     
  4. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    bottesini has a book?
     
  5. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    I bought one on line a few months ago. It is a re-print of his book.
     
  6. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    whats the name of his book?
     
  7. Johnny L

    Johnny L

    Feb 14, 2002
    Victoria, TX
    I saw a guy, recently, show us how to knock out one of those tough opera licks in D (I want to say it was a Handel opera, but I'm not too swift on that stuff and don't remember). He did it in thumb position, D on the A string. He rocked it.

    Can't remember his name, it was the double bass teacher at University of Houston.

    At any rate, I downloaded the free thing maybe a year ago...and I couldn't find any open hand fingerings being offered there. Have you changed that to explore the new concepts, or did I miss something?
     
  8. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    Giovanni Bottesini, 'Method for Double Bass' , part one, Yorke Edition. Editors note; Rodney Slatford, London 1982

    (c) 1981 by Yorke Edition, 31 Thornhill Square, London N1 1BQ, England. Tel:0171 607 0849, fax:0171 700 4577

    OK? That helps?
     
  9. TomGale

    TomGale

    Jul 31, 2005
    American School of Double Bass
    True - Mark didn't mention much about the open hand technique (4 finger, Franke, the thing that Karr uses, etc.) but it is an important part of the Triangulation of Fingering Systems which is the core of the ASODB. You may have to buy the book!!! hahahaha.
    The Author
    Tom Gale
     
  10. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    hmmm, i'll have to order that one toot sweet... is there a part 2?
     
  11. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    ok, i've searched online and i see that there is a part 2. can you give me a summary of what is contained in the book? i'm a huge bottesini fan.
     
  12. KSB - Ken Smith

    KSB - Ken Smith Banned Commercial User

    Mar 1, 2002
    Perkasie, PA USA
    Owner: Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
    Yes, Yorke Edition has a complete list of books and Bass music on the Back of the Book. I emailed the company I got mine from and they said that's all the recieved so I don't know what is still available.
     
  13. Johnny L

    Johnny L

    Feb 14, 2002
    Victoria, TX
    Trick or treat? Must be Halloween.

    Actually, your books appear quite reasonably priced IMO.
     
  14. TomGale

    TomGale

    Jul 31, 2005
    American School of Double Bass
    Thank you! I try to keep the price down even as I keep adding stuff. Someday I may even make a profit and turn Republican!!
    Tom Gale
     
  15. Aleph5

    Aleph5

    Feb 24, 2004
    Tennessee
    Trick or treat, indeed! :ninja:
     
  16. I find Petracchi gets me around Schubert's "great" Symphony's "scherzo", while a lot of four-finger stuff gets me around the "finale" (which I think is much trickier than the "scherzo"!).

    The Petracchi book "Simplified Higher Technique" is a great resource for practical application of thumb technique, including well below the octave harmonic, which is where a lot of the tricky stuff happens in Schubert 9 (or 7, or 10, depending on the editor of your edition).

    Petracchi also includes, after every couple technical exercises, practical applications of what you just learned to the **Actual Bass Repertoire**. This is something that most methods, especially Simandl, are terribly lacking.
     
  17. TomGale

    TomGale

    Jul 31, 2005
    American School of Double Bass
    I'm not familiar with Patracchi's book although I have heard very good comments. Here is an excerpt from a review that compares my Technical Foundation Studies, vol. 2 and he also mentions Patrachi. It's from the Double Bassist in london Fall of 2004.

    Thumb position is addressed in Volume two. Like the Petracchi higher
    technique, Vol. 2 organizes thumb position into three groupings (m3,
    M3, P4). Unlike Petracchi, every possible combination of finger
    patterns within the intervals is reinforced. Original melodic etudes
    and the appendix synthesize all three techniques. Considering the
    amount of supplemental material in this volume, the title is
    misleading. It is the summation for the student's study of the
    Triangulation, and is therefore the vital volume.



    Each volume is painstakingly crafted, and reflects decades of
    exposure to successful classroom method books. This series will be a
    necessary study for anyone interested in exploring alternate and
    expanded techniques in the spirit of Petracchi, Rabbath, and other
    performers who are not only constantly pushing the envelope and
    finding innovative solutions to complex problems, but who also have
    the discipline and talent to present their ideas in a coherent manner.
     
  18. Steve Bassman

    Steve Bassman Supporting Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    Tampa Bay, FL
    Bottesini fan or not, I'd skip the Bottesisni method books as published by Yorke editions. What they've done is omit all written instructions from the author and edited the etudes for a modern four-string bass with a low E string. The original method included the author's instructions and fingerings (with of use of the third finger and whole steps between first and fourth) and was written for Bottesini's preferred instrument; a three string bass tuned A-D-G. While the etudes in the Yorke editons may be useful, I would be much more interested in an authentic reprint, even if much of it is out of step with current practice. Occasionally an old edition of the original English language Bottesini method appears on eBay (often from the UK), but these usually go for several hundred dollars.

    - Steve

    My web page
     
  19. shwashwa

    shwashwa

    Aug 30, 2003
    NJ
    damn, there's no other way to see his instructions other than the expensive books?
     
  20. Steve Bassman

    Steve Bassman Supporting Member

    Dec 3, 2003
    Tampa Bay, FL
    I'm afraid not. I've been collecting old double bass method books for a few years and while I have a several old, out of print books in my collection (H.J. Butler, A.C. White, Otto Langey, Bob Haggart, Boosey & Co plus a few others) the Bottesini method has proven to be quite elusive. I believe it has been out of print for many years and the English language version was more common in the UK that here in the states. Bits of it are quoted in other books like Paul Brun's History of the Double Bass and I recall that someone here on talkbass posted Bottesini's instructions for his namesake (i.e. French) bow hold. This leads me to believe someone on this board owns a copy of his original method.

    - Steve

    My web page