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Throwing Lows

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by jondog, Jun 26, 2005.


  1. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    My cabs are perfect for stage monitoring, w/ plenty of volume for me and the band. Off stage is another matter. Usually I have decent PA support, but we are training a new tech and she's learning a bit slower than we'd like. Also, sometimes I play without PA support. Anyway, here's the specifics...

    I run biamped, w/ a BE 15xd on top and an EV 1x18 on bottom. The mids and highs do make it out into the room because the BE really cuts. The lows don't make it to the edge of the stage. The EV is in too small of a box, so I'm sure that's part of it. Since I want to throw lows into the room, I think I have these options.

    - Get a 4 ohm 18"
    - Get more power
    - Get a bigger 1x18 box
    - Get a completely new sub cab

    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    are you sure the lows are not filling out the room? as in, have you had someone else paly bass nd gone out to see for yourself/had someone else give you feedback?

    things sound very different on stage and lows take a while to develop.

    other than that, a different box or more power are probably your best bets. if it's underpowered moving up toa 4 ohm cab wont do much for you. also you might want to mess with your crossover point, and try running full range into the 15 and sending the lows to the sub - that way both cabs will be putting out the low end.
     
  3. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    The Republic of Texas
    How about a Bag End S18B-D?

    [Or replace what you now use with a Schroeder 21012 or 310212 -- either of these will get your sound out there.]
     
  4. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    No, I need to update my profile. The Mackie is great but weighs a ton. It drives our PA mains now.

    I use a Soundtech PS800, which is 230W per side into 8 ohms. I would get 400W if I went to a 4 ohm sub -- more power but not a lot more.

    Last night I tried running the xover at 30hz, and it helped but I still want more lows.

    Last weekend got me thinking this. A guy sat in for a song and I went to the bathroom. When I got out I had enough time to listen from the floor but not really enough time to tell her what to fix on the board. I could hear the notes just fine, but there was no meat to them. The real solution to this is with the PA, I have an excellent stage monitor rig, I just want insurance for when the PA isn't cutting it.

    If I was going w/ a whole new cab, the BE 18 would be a contender. Or what about their INFRA subs?
     
  5. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    one thing to remember, on the gigs where you have a good pa a rig that throws out a lot of low end will drive the soundman crazy.

    I've done sound for guys who had foghorns for stage amps and there was no way to tame those lows.
     
  6. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    Yes, 230W lows is the problem. Sounds great right in front of it, sounds clear but empty farther away.

    I'm looking at the Peavey dpc 1400, but that only does something like 350W per side into 8 ohms. If I did that and a 4 ohm driver I could get up to 700W. Another part of my obsession w/ lows comes in the form of a Furman subharmonic synthesizer, it's like the dbx 120 and it produces a subtle octave below your tone. I rewired my di line to send these extra lows to the PA, so that might help some if I can get her to turn up the PA subs.

    I'm pretty sure my small box is worth it to my back, so I don't want to change that. The Bag Ends also come in small boxes, anybody know how much the INFRA processor/xover thingy costs?
     
  7. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    infra/elf units are expensive. the bag end site will give you msrp, and you could call a be dealer for more info. they also turn up on ebay sometimes. IIRC the elf units were 1 and 2 grand depending upon which one you got.

    but forget the infra, you need more watts for the sub. and i still say run the BE 15 full range to help pick up more lows that way.
     
  8. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Try a Crest CA9 and call me in the morning. ;)
     
  9. jondog

    jondog

    Mar 14, 2002
    NYC metro area
    :) I want a light power amp. I lugged than Mackie around for 2 years and I'm not going back to lead . . .

    I did try running the BE full range, it helped some but the cab itself rolls off at 50 hz. I play both 4 and 5 string and I want my lows and sublows.
     
  10. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Fair enough. FWIW, my top recommendation in the lightweight power amp category would be the Stewart World 2.1.

    Tom.