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Thunderfunk 550B / Schroeder 410r ...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bassplayer75, Mar 8, 2010.


  1. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    Hey guys just wondering if anyone else playing this combination finds something lacking in tone...I want to love the cab and the head but find I'm always twisting knobs looking for my sound.

    I actually went to band rehearsal last night where I keep a roland bass cube 100...plugged my fretless stingray into it and found myself liking that amp better than my big rig set up ... what gives ?

    I've been playing for 20 years + with pro gigs under my belt...could always find a usable tone on anything I plugged into ... I'm I just missing my Eden's or, have I just gotten use to the sound of 12 inch speakers from playing through the roland so much ...

    Don't get me wrong the setup is punchy and loud just seems to lack (insert better word here) *Balls*
     
  2. Alexander

    Alexander

    Aug 13, 2001
    Seattle, WA
    I've never played through a Schroeder, but from what I've heard they are very mid-oriented, as is the Thunderfunk. IME, you need a wider sounding cab for the Thunderfunk to sound great and this held true for me, even with the 750A which is itself a bit wider than the 550B.
     
  3. +1 If you like the mid warmth and that bit of compressed tone in the low and top end of the TF, then a more wide, evenly voiced cab (Aguilar, Epifani, etc.) will sound better. I found the Aguilar DB112's to be a particularly good match for the TF if you like a sort of 'vintage meets modern' warm, punchy tone.

    If you dig the punch and force of the Schroeder, a head with more open low end and not as 'cut off' up top will sound better. The Markbass heads (LMIII, F1) are voiced particularly well for the Schroe cabs, due to the extended low end and the EQ frequency points and filters (boosting bass and cutting low mids a bit on the MB heads, and applying a little bit of the VPF filter does wonders).

    Edit: That all being said, that particular Schro cab (and, in general, all the 'slanted baffle' cabs) has a very strong built in voice, with lots of peaks and valleys in its frequency response. It will never sound as even as a more traditional cab like your Roland. I have a buddy who is using his TF with one of the new SWR GoLight 410's and says it is killer. The TF also sounds GREAT with the Bergantino AE410 IMO and IME. Also, the more traditional Schroeder BMF cabs are also great (if still very tight and punchy).
     
  4. My experience is that a "flat" response cab will give a harder tone to adjust than a colored response cab. My Bag Ends with the Thunderfunk gave a great tone, and mixed very well with the band, even running flat, but Eden cabs actually sounded better in my living room. It dependes to a great extent on what you like. I love the Thunderfunk with either, but prefer the way the Bag Ends cut through and sounded over the colored response of the Eden. But it really is a personal choice.
     
  5. The Bag Ends sound great with the TF also, especially if you have an 'x' and 'non x' stack.

    It's not so much about 'colored or flat', since every cab has a voice. It's about matching the voice of the head (especially a head like the TF, which has a strong inherent tone no matter what you do with the EQ... those lo pass and hi pass settings can't be varied) with the peaks and valleys of the cabs. I found it tough with the Schroeder's I've owned in the past with that particular head.
     
  6. It happens. I hauled my rare old vintage amp, vintage speaker cab, with the best bass speaker on the market... sounded ok...
    next time I ended up using their broken knob Peavey combo POS... sounded better! What gives?

    Nothing you can do... just keep trying different combos of gear until you find one that works for YOU. That's why people have such a wide variety of gear... you basically just keep experimenting until you stumble on the combo of bass, cab, and amp that just happens to work with your physical and musical style.
     
  7. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    yeah, I'm thinking it's the schroeder cab not doing it for me, bad part is I live in east kentucky and there's really no place to go try out good cabs like the aguilar, epifani, etc.
    I just know I'm not getting a good tone with the TF/Schroeder combo no matter what I do ... I need some more growl ...
     
  8. Alexander

    Alexander

    Aug 13, 2001
    Seattle, WA
    I think the Thunderfunk sounds great with Bergantino AE cabs - I just moved back to Berg cabs and don't ever want to switch. I had an Epifani UL410 paired with my TFunk and it sounded great, but not growly at all (which is a large part of why I sold it). Bergs were more alive sounding...
     
  9. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    Are you trying to find your tone by yourself, or in a mix? :)

    I always found my Schroeder sounded a lot better in a mix than by itself, and getting a tone I liked outside of a band context was pretty challenging. And then whatever worked by myself did not work in a band context (washed out).

    My suggestion would be: If it sounds good live, don't worry about it. On stage, most of what matters is that you hear yourself and not overpower anyone else. Get a quality DI and send "your sound" to the sound guy for the mains, let the Schroeder be your stage monitor.

    If you're in a situation with no PA support, I bet you the Schro sounds just fine to the audience - but have someone record it and check, or have someone play your bass while you go out and listen, or do so with wireless.
     
  10. T. Alan Smith

    T. Alan Smith Guest

    Sep 9, 2001
    Yeah, I'd be leaning more toward the AE410 over the Epi or Aggies(which are more smooth to my ears) if your looking for more growl.
     
  11. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    I can actually get a pretty good sound with my fretted stingray... tight, punchy, thick...(not enough growl but very usuable) it's my fretless tone with this combo thats really killing me...with my roland bass cube, the fretless comes alive, and just kills (growly, hairy, punchy, mwah for days) but it sounds thin and lifeless with the tf/schroeder ...
    I've gotta work a night shift tonight, but I'll try to do some youtube vids to show more of what I'm talking about...
     
  12. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    I'm just wondering, if after always using the roland for practice and small gigs, I've gotten away from liking the tone of 10's. Didn't care much for the TF with my nephews goliath 3 either ...
     
  13. GBassNorth

    GBassNorth

    Dec 23, 2006
    SoCal
    +1
    my TF hooked up to my Berg HT322 sounds fantastic then click on the VT pedal and OMG, breathtaking! Next best thing to my SVT VR/Berg610 rig.
     
  14. rpsands

    rpsands

    Jul 6, 2007
    Phoenix, AZ
    No. The Goliath is not a terribly deeply voiced cab either.

    The Schroeder I think your problem is twofold:
    1) the huge low mid bump
    2) the overly aggressive horn

    The Thunderfunk probably just can't cut the low mids in the right place to make it sound right.

    That said: I reiterate my advice to check out what it sounds like in the crowd before you make a hasty decision. What it sounds like on stage is very often nothing like what it sounds like FOH, even if you aren't using a lot of PA support.
     
  15. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    I think your right about the schroeder. It does sound good in a band context, but still not as good as I would like. Just for reference I'm a fan of the Eden xlt series cabs and wt heads ... my wt550 took a low power surge and blew the transformer, so i thought what a great time to try a TF. I had also been dying to try the schroeder so picked both of them up here in the for sale ads ... but I'm thinking its the voicing with the schroeder thats doing me in ...
     
  16. The XLT cabs have a LOT of upper mids going on. The Schroeder cabs with baffles have none. That's probably what you are hearing... plenty of volume, plenty of punch, but no 'character' in the upper mids (what I call 'hearing the windings on the strings'). The Berg AE's will set you free there... I describe them as 'better quality, lighter XLT's'... tight, punchy, GRINDY!:bassist:
     
  17. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    (what I call 'hearing the windings on the strings')

    exactly ... so what would you guys suggest ... 12's or a 4x10 ... ?
     
  18. The AE410 has a bit more bite, but the 2 x 112 stack will most likely get you where you want to go IMO.
     
  19. One thing to try before spending a bunch of cash.

    Get the TF back to 'flat' (timbre at noon, enhance off, everything else at noon). Leave that timbre control alone.. that can go massive damage to your tone even just slightly off of noon (unless you want extreme EQ and voicing).

    Engage the enhance to around 10 o'clock. The TF's enhance control is quite a bit more subtle than the Eden enhance, and is pretty musical up until around the noon setting. That will help 'widen and brighten' the rather mid voiced TF.

    Boost the bass control just a touch to taste... maybe 1 o'clock. That should be pretty fat and punchy right there.

    OK, now, using one of the upper mid semi-parametrics, mess around with boosting somewhere between 1 and 2K quite a bit (that's the 'grind' region that sits right where there is a big old frequency hole in your cab).

    If that doesn't do it... probably time for a more evenly voiced box!
     
  20. bassplayer75

    bassplayer75 Bassplayer75 Supporting Member

    Oct 14, 2009
    salyersville, ky
    thanks for all the suggestions, no matter what I try I just can't get the fretless to come alive with this rig so I think I'll try to move the schroeder out and check out some other cabs with the TF/550b.

    with suggestions here I've been looking at the Bergantino AE112, what do you guys think of the aguilar DB112, or the epifani ul series ...???
     
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