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ThunderFunk + CA9

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Big String, Dec 4, 2005.


  1. Question: I was doing some experimenting today with my TFB550 and to Crest CA9. I was trying to get just the TF preamp to 'slave' via the ca9. The only way I can get the preamp signal only, without the volume of the TF is to use the XLR DI and it's not a very powerful signal. Even with the Master level for the DI (on the back panel) all the way up the signal is kinda weak. I had to turn up the ca9 channel gain all the way up to get gigging loud. Also, by turning up the bass tone on my Sadowsky bass preamp helped boost the signal quite a bit, but adds more bass tone than I want.

    Next, I ran the signal from the TF's Effects Loop2 which has all the preamp gain and EQ, enhance, and Timbre. This is much much louder and only had to put the ca9 gain at 25%. I'm not comfortable with this set up though. In order to get any signal at all from the TF you must raise the volume (right side front panel), because the preamp is still routed through the TF internal power amp. This is now sending a powered signal into the back of the ca9, I don't think is a very good idea. Any thoughts on this??

    Other alternatives.
    1. If I use Effects Loop1 the signal is before the the EQ section of the TF.
    2. Direct Inst Output is nothing from the TF, just pure instrument input signal.
    3. The Phone/Line Ouput (front panel) output is the entire preamp and power amp of the TF. Again .. going into the ca9 with powered signal...

    I guess my big question here is, will the signal from the TF's power section harm th CA9 with more than just a line level signal ?? Am I missing something here?
     
  2. I read over both manuals for the TF and Ca9 again. I tried several XLR cables with the same results, also making sure they were wired correctly (#2 pin being the + hot, standard with both units).

    The CA9 manual:
    DO NOT connect inputs/outputs of amplifiers or consoles to any other voltage source, such as battery, mains source, or power supply, regardless of whether the amplifier of console is turned on or not.

    DO NOT drive the inputs with a signal level greater than that required to drive equipment to full output.
    which is Gain=x86.5 and Sens .775V @8ohms.

    I don't know what the TF's line level strength is to the Post EQ Balanced out which would go into the CA9 input. When I had this knob turned all the way up it was still a weaker signal seems not enough to drive the ca9... odd.
     
  3. Fuzzhead

    Fuzzhead

    Sep 26, 2005
    Australia
    Hey Big!

    That is the preamp out right there, effect loop send 2. It's not a powered signal...the master volume attenuates the preamp signal before entering either power amp.

    You could insert a cable into the return to disengage the thunderfunk power amp entirely, but I don't think it's necessary.

    Check with Dave but I'm pretty sure that's right and safe. :)
     
  4. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Dean:

    The Line Output on the front panel should work fine. This is a preamp level signal, and does not pass through the Thunderfunk's output section.

    Tom.
     
  5. el_Kabong

    el_Kabong

    Jul 11, 2005
    Hey BigString, how does it sound? How does the TF's onboard poweramp measure up against a channel of the ca9? I recently ran the pre of my gk700rb thru a ca9 and was very suprised to discover how coloured the power amp of the GK is.
     
  6. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    A curious bump. ;)
     
  7. Just waiting for Dave to pop in a response. I'm sure there is a safe way to accomplish this. My guess is I'm not interpreting the TF manual correctly. It states in several places that the signal can be sent to other sources.

    Fuzz. Thanks for the response. Still feeling a little uncomfortable...my lack of really understanding certain circuitry.. Also by raising the volume there is no load on the TF since the cab is hooked to the CA9. I believe even SS amps should have a load when the volume/master is anything but off...? my head hurts.

    Tom. Also thanks. According to the manual it has the entire pre and power.. again probably not getting the whole circuitry thing. :(

    El. The TF sounds great and has lots of power. I just like to know my options if I need lots more juice and or want to run multiple cabs at full power via the CA9. I'm thinking of putting the CA9 in it's own case to mix and match with what ever amp or preamp I choose. The brief time I did run the TF pre out of the Loop2 it was very very loud and clear. As I said above I only had the CA9 at around 25%, the TF gain was at 4 and TF volume on 4 also.

    I just can't figure out why the DI going to the CA9 is so weak.
     
  8. jja412

    jja412 Fine gear enthusiast

    Feb 2, 2004
    St. Louis
    Just read through my Thunderfunk manual... and Effects send #2 is the way to go here. All of the controls from the thunderfunk are used. However, if you connect into the return of this send, you effectively disengage the preamp.

    You don't need to have a load engaged to the SS power section. It will safely run with nothing connected. However, using Effects Send 2, you could send the pre signal to the CA9, and still run the TF power section with a different cab simultaneously.

    As far as the volume control affecting the signal, I believe this is an attenuator that comes directly before the power amp. So that section of the signal routing inside the Tfunk would roughly be:

    all the pre stuff----> Volume Control---->Effects Send 2----> Power Section---->Speaker Outs

    So the volume control is affecting the signal to the CA9, while stilll sending a safe signal.

    AFAIK, the only way to get a "powered" signal out of the TF is to plug to the Speakon or 1/4 inch outs that are marked for speaker output.

    Your CA9 will be fine. Please post a detailed review of the difference in sound when you get a chance.... I am toying with the idea of getting a power amp to slave to my TF420...
     
  9. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    That is the output I used when I was testing out a TFB420 with a CA9, and it worked fine. I just can't see any way that there would be 550w coming out of that "Phones/Line Out" jack. At least I've never heard of headphones needing that much output. You'd need new ears, if you tried it! :D There might be a 1w inline mini-amp, though. Again, Dave will know.

    Tom.
     
  10. SnoMan

    SnoMan Words Words Words Supporting Member

    Jan 27, 2001
    Charleston, WV

    Dude....my headphones are loaded with 18's....


    :smug:
     
  11. Thanks Everyone.. I'm feeling much better now that you've brought it down to my level. Can't help it... I'm the "what if guy." Not that I doubt any of your input, but will be even more comfy if Dave hops in. I will be trying these different methods very soon. Thanks
     
  12. jacove

    jacove

    Apr 12, 2003
    Aalborg, Denmark
    Sounds like an interesting pairing,love to hear that...

    Big String, I thought you sold your Thunderfunk, what made you change your mind...do you like it more than the DB750?
     
  13. I traded the first TF I had for a cab. I missed it so I bought another. Although I'm kinda missing the 750 the TF actually sounds a bit better to me through the EW and I like the EQ. The 750 worked well for me on outside venues when I need extra headroom, but sounded too loose in the lowend in rooms at least to me. I probably could have added an EQ to fix that, but I preferred my Demeter201s and CA9 for the "big gun." (at least this month :rolleyes: )
     
  14. jacove

    jacove

    Apr 12, 2003
    Aalborg, Denmark
    I can definetely see why you like the Thunderfunk through the Whappo...they sound excellent together...Though I would like to add that when playing my NV215 and DB750 the bottom is tight and very punchy...
     
  15. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    good lord, man,

    what on God's green earth moved you to try this combination?! :eek:
     
  16. I'm guessing you meant me....
    If so, it's because I might need more power sometime and like to know my options. I like the EQ on the TF so far.
    Maybe you were speaking to Jacove
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    hehe,

    when i feel a certain rhythmic punching sensation in my chest, at least now i'll know where its coming. :p

    but i can only imagine how awesome that rig would sound, biggie. only baffles me why Dave hasnt thought about making a hifi preamp version of his killer head.
     
  18. Good point Joker... maybe not cost effective thing..
    I do really like the TF at 15# for most gigging I'll be doing (ihope) Beside my WWU the TF is a really friendly EQ section and as many have said the Timbre and Enhance are "magical", but again this is not gig tested for me yet. If the TF doesn't work for me I'm just going to replace my whole head...(the one on my shoulders). :eek: Really though... I'm pretty darn impressed with it so far, I didn't give the first one I had much of a chance.
     
  19. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Like an update of the AMP SL-1, eh? I think that could be a good thing.

    Tom.
     
  20. anyonefortennis

    anyonefortennis Supporting Member

    Jun 28, 2005
    Lincoln, NE

    I'd be content with a TFB1000 that would handle 2ohms :)