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Thunderfunk vs glockenklang Heart Rock I/II?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Devo-lution, Sep 16, 2010.

  1. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    Hi y'all

    My current gear isn't loud enough for one of my three bands, so I guess an upgrade is becoming really in order.

    current gear:

    Stingray 2 EQ (early 2000's model)
    Little Mark II
    Eden XST 410 (4 ohm)

    My current plan is buying me an eden XST 210 (8 ohm), so I can use the lot in a modular 610 kinda way. (I really grew tired of hauling the 410 to all these smalltime open mics and jams I occasionally do.)

    But, for my jazz/funkband (ironically, I don't have any problem being heard in my more rock oriented bands) I really need more volume. I have never gone as far as making my LMII clip, but in order to just hear myself in this jazzfunk band, I have to push the markbass enough to render my tone severely compressed.

    While checking out amps, I finally cut the lot down to two options:

    Either the new thunderfunk... 750 or the glockenklang Heart Rock. The glock has the advantage of me living close to Germany (daytrip = no import costs) and that it has the 2.67 ohm possibility for my planned modular set up.

    Never having actually tested one of these amps and not having the option to actually test a Thunderfunk (no dealers in the proximity)... I'd like to ask for advice here on talkbass. What is the tonal difference between both? advantages? disadvantages?...

    To give an idea of tones that I really dig: Marcus Miller, Mark King, Louis Johson (altough I find that one a bit to transparent), the tone on the Mike Stern song "chromazone"... I like slap sounds quite punchy and a bit sparkly (but not tooo much treble)... good controls for the low mids are always an advantage and I severely hate it when an amp starts compressing the tone!

    And... Is it really true or a myth that the tone becomes les responsive when going under 4 ohm (2 ohm, 2.67)?

    That's it I guess

    Thanks a lot in advance
  2. chris.gotfunk


    Mar 21, 2007
    Ashburn, Va
    I have the 550 Thunderfunk and love it. It has a lot of power and I believe Dave Funk will tell you that they can run at 2ohms as well. The TF's are not a "HiFi" amp, but with that said you can dial in the tones you mentioned.

    Availability will be tough where you live, but I am sure if you contat Thunderfunk directly, they can work it out with you. I don't think you will dissapointed in the amp.

    I have never played the Glocks, so I can't tell you anything there. Everything I hear about them is great though.
  3. Being very familiar with every piece of gear you have, IMO it is not a volume issue but a voicing issue. The Eden XST410 is the definition of scooped... huge low end, very polite low mids... similar to the Epifani 410UL voicing. The relatively even, wide tone of the LMII, and the unfortunate 380hz center frequency off the low mid control really ends up generating a bit of a flubby tone... too much low end, not enough low mids or mid mids. Add the Stingray, which can also be a bit scoopy in the mids if you boost the bass control, and you end up with a muddy mess that requires you to turn up and up and up in a mix.

    The Glock (owned one) will be even worse IMO.... yes, you will get more volume (along with about 45 more pounds in a rack), but the Glock is also voiced very deep, and even though the mid EQ is powerful, the HR and Soul do not match up well with wide, polite cabs.... they are more wide and pure than punchy IMO.

    The Thunderfunk has enough mid present and EQ power that you would probably find that better, although you will lose that nice upper treble extension of the LMII.

    If you need that 2.67 impedance when combining the 210 and 410, then you are pretty limited on what you can use. As another option, if you stick with that 4ohm 410, either the Genz Shuttle 9 or the Markbass LM500 will have the tight voicing and the control of the lower mids to punch up that cab nicely IMO (or an Eden WT550 for that matter).

    IMO and lots of IME on the combinations you are considering.

    PS Regarding your question about tone and 2.67 ohm operation... for a well designed amp (i.e., one that is designed to work at 2ohms, not just be 'safe' at 2ohms), it isn't an issue.
  4. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    Yeah, I guess buying a thunderfunk would be adding a lot more import costs and taxes, while living in a European union country, the glock would be taxless and free of import costs.... I guess I'd be able to get the glock for +/- 1900 dollar...

    The Thunderfunk would be the ordinary price + international shipping + 21% buyer's taxes...
  5. One more comment. TecAmp is releasing a new Puma1000 at the end of the year that is 2ohm safe and generates big power at about 8 pounds or so. It has some of that Glock creaminess and hi fi response, but is much smaller, lighter, and most importantly, the low mid control can really punch up the tone.

    The current model is dual mono, and I understand some have had problems, but the redesign looks to be amazing. And, being in Germany, it won't cost an arm and a leg like in the US.

    The Puma heads do the Mark King thing beautifully... deep lows, hi fi top end. Killer heads. I have a few clips of my Puma500 on my Youtube channel to give you an idea (although my cabs are much punchier than the XST line of Eden cabs.

    Hope that gives you some ideas to consider.
  6. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    Concerning stingray 2 EQ's EQ... It's true that the bass really boosts bass while freezing the mids? I have been experimenting lately with slightly cutting bass and somewhat more cutting the treble as that one seems to be fare from flat in the middle position.

    I guess that whatever I buy, a good mid control is a must. I like the low end possibilities the cab gives me (I also play in a hip hop band). Since you have a lot of knowledge concerning amps... Which of all amps would you advice me to check out concerning that I need some bumpyness and tightness in the mids/low mids, I slap a lot, I hate compressed sounds, I need some serious volume nonetheless... You already mentioned the LM500 (F500?), eden WT550 and the shuttle 9...

    The band is really tremendously loud, no way of diverting that. Cranked, I can sometimes only hear a distant humming (which is, the sound of my bass)... I have to "compete" with an organ, a synthesizer and a very loud drummer...

    Thanks a lot for all the help
    I truly appreciate it
  7. If you can try the Glock, you might dig it. It won't 'burp' with that cab IMO, but it will THUNDER. The slap tone is again kind of more of a Mark King thing than a Marcus Miller thing (i.e., pure hi fi ping versus lower treble grit and grind). I find that kind of slap tone REALLY needs some power to make it through the cymbals and guitars... gets eaten up a bit.

    Your 2.67 ohm requirement really limits your choices. If you can wait for the TecAmp Puma1000 revision to come out (especially since you are in Germany), I'm convinced that would do what you need to do. It puts out 1000 watts into 4ohms and significantly more into 2 ohms, and has VERY nicely voiced EQ (the wide Q 250hz low mid control is wonderful), and it has that Glock type pure top end.

    If you didn't need to go down to 2.67 ohms, the new Markbass SD1200 is getting rave reviews... massive power and semi-parametric mids.

    Try the Glock though. It is a beautiful piece of gear (haven't heard the II though... the current model). I'm just a bit worried about too much 'wide, pure and creamy meets wide pure and creamy' with that head and your cab matchup.

    Good luck! The additional power of the Glock may give you exactly what you need.

  8. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    The reason I'd like a smaller cab is that I wouldn't always be forced to haul around the 410 to every smalltime jam party where a 112 would already give just about enough volume.

    So, this 2.67 is not absolutely necessary. If the 410 can do 'it' on it's own, I can just get myself a small traveler cabbie to use for those jam sessions and only use the 410 for bandwork.

    I'll be passing musicstore one of these days and with some luck I'd be able to test a glock... but what I fear is that it'd really might be thunder :p.

    I like big low ends when I'm playing heavy rock or hip hop. When I'm playing this jazzy funky music, I usually cut quite a lot of bass.

    thanks a lot
    You truly are one of the most helpful people on this forum

  9. As a side note, that 210XST is one of the most beautiful sounding cabs I've ever heard.... smooth and hi fi without the overwhelming rumble of the 410XLT. Many use the 210XST/210XLT stack to get a deep yet punchy tone. That's another idea to go modular and stay within the Eden family.

    You might want to try the Markbass SD1200 with your 410 if you can. 8 pounds in a 10 pound two space rack or a bag is a lot better than 35 pounds in a 15 pound three space rack:p

    Post up after you've tried some stuff. Good luck!


    PS Also, both the Glock and Puma stuff uses some sort of audio taper on the master volume. So, be aware of that. The Glock doesn't even start to get loud until the master is at noon, and it keeps going up until 3 or 4 o'clock. Same thing with the Puma. Also, the input clip light of the Glock is a strange one, since the Heartrock has a sort of 'tube overdrive' type circuit in the input stage. That clip light will come on VERY early in the travel of the gain control, but doesn't mean 'turn it down'. It is just indicating that the preamp is adding some 'tube emulation' and warmth. So, the knobs work quite differently from your LMII, which is basically 'set the input just below clip, and turn up the master through about noon to get maximum volume'
  10. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    Maybe I should rename this to "what amp to buy"? :')
  11. :D I guess the number of people who have tried or owned each amp is very small, especially since the TF is primarily a US brand, and the Glock is primarily on your side of the pond.

    Well, at least you got me. Give it another couple days!
  12. chicago_mike


    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    If I may be so bold as to hijack this thread and do a +1 for the Shuttle 9.0.

    I have seen her do a 2 ohm load, driving the accu groove bill dickens cabs at a gig. Its not meant to do a 2 ohm load and 2 or 3 times it did go into thermal protect, but that was so quick it came back on beat!

    Q : Are you 100% sold on your cabinets?
  13. I don't think I'd do that. Multiple thermal shutdowns are a sign that you are doing something bad:D.

    However, the Shuttle Max 12 might be an option. With a 4ohm 410XST and an 8 ohm 210XST, the dual mono Max 12 will provide about the same amount of wattage to each of the 6 drivers, and wump out about 900 watts or so total without having to deal with the 2.67 ohm issue.

    The only thing I hesitate regarding the Genz stuff for the OP is that they are tight and bright... not nearly as big down low as the Glock or the TF750. However, that might not be a bad thing with those particular cabs. The Genz heads also seem to be well liked by former Eden guys, so that's another positive.

    The 8 pounds ain't bad either, with two pre's (tube and solid state) and massive EQ power.

    Might be worth a look if they have German distribution.
  14. chicago_mike


    Oct 9, 2007
    Chicago - LA - Rome - Dallas
    Endorsing Artist : Genz Benz
    Oh, its NOT me doing the thermal shutdown...its Billy! :D And this was a blues gig..:eek:

    I want to check out the SM12 myself but I have to decide on cabinets first I think. Since THe tone of the 9 and 12 are similar if not the same.

    But yeah, being able to have seperate amps for a 210 and a 410 might be a more realistic option???
  15. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    I'm not really an Eden guy :p. My last amp before going markbass was a Hartke combo. I'm just very dependant on availability in Belgium and I'm only recently getting into the idea of getting myself a really good rig (Germany is a 2 hour drive, that's were I'm pointing my arrows recently). Belgian shops in this region usually only have one or two bass amps in stock and there ain't much more cabs. Most shops have one brand or two brands or so.

    When I bought this eden cab, I asked them if they could also get Epifani cabs. They didn't even know what those were :p.

    Sounds quite interesting by the way, a dual mono amp. Isn't that what the current Tecamp 1000 does?

    And if I take a bright amp and a cab that's heavy down low, will that actually even things out well? Or will it feel like there's something missing in the voicing of the cab?

    And the 410 XST is also quite bright itself in my experience combined with my ray. It's the mids that are missing :crying:.
  16. bassmeins


    Jun 28, 2006
    I own a HeartRock1 and tested the HeartRock2.

    During the 1 is quite neutral sounding, the 2 comes alive with the eq activated.
    Glockenklang did change not only the centerfrequencies, they although changed the inner life of the pre- and poweramp (pa because of the European RoHS (= Restriction of the use of certain hazardous substances), so its kind of a different beast now.

    The 2 is still a HeartRock but has its own new sound, with much more character avaiable, IMHO.
  17. HeartRock II is like the Soul II but with A LOT OF POWER. The HR I is voiced more aggressively.
  18. Still a bit of confusion here. From what I understand, the only difference between the Soul and the Soul II was one of the midrange EQ band's center point (which was changed so that the Soul II and the Heartrock had identical front ends... I think it was the mid mid control shifting from 500hz to 750, or vice versa).

    It sounds like the HeartRock II is more of an overall update, but again, very unclear on the Glock website as to what that entails (just some marketing drivel in the description).

    Per the above comparison, while I thought my Heartrock sounded good, it was anything but 'flat and transparent'. Unlike the higher end Glock amps, it has a very strong voice... an unusual combination of wide, tubelike low end that can grind a bit with that tube emulation circuitry in the preamp (you must ignore the 'clip light' on the front end of the Glock... it is more of an 'emulation' engagement indicator) and a super crisp, hi fi top end.

    That head really made my basses sound like they were being played 'through a Glock'... very strong voice that I ended up not liking in the end (that combination of deep low end, extremely clean mids, and super upper treble extension ended up being death in the mixes I perform in... more dense pop/funk type bands).

    While they didn't sound the same in many ways, the general tone profile of the Heartrock reminded me a lot of the iAmp800... HUGE low end, super clean (some would say sterile) midrange, and a super extended, hi fi top end. Really nice tone if that's what you are looking for, and pretty much the exact opposite of the Thunderfunk's voicing and voice.

    Again, can't comment on if the HeartRock II sounds significantly different, but it sounds like it does from the above post.
  19. If you like the tone with your current amp, but lack volume, then the answer is simple: buy another cabinet and also a power amp. You can run your LM as a preamp, and run your cabs through the power amp. Your choices there are almost limitless as to how much power you want, and stereo and bridging options. They got a bit of weight, but no more than a Heartrock head would. Also it's a cheap option, and you'll know how the tone will be before you set off.
  20. Devo-lution


    Jun 24, 2009
    Good point and well said, but I really need something that can give a boost to the low mids... :)

    Maybe an odd idea, but if the other heads of glockenklang would be somewhat more "flat"... Would a bass art preamp + a heart rock power amp do the trick any more? Or bass art + bugatti...

    It'll cost me quite some, but I guess I can afford it... If the tone and tone control would justify the price, might be worth checking out.
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