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TL-606's versus B115 Avatar

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by JazzbassArt, Jan 27, 2005.


  1. JazzbassArt

    JazzbassArt

    Dec 12, 2004
    Andover, MN
    First off, hello. I "retired" in 1977, played a one nighter deal (mostly weddings, private parties in 1980 and 1981) but recently got "refired" after buying an American Deluxe Jazz. I built a pair of TL-606's in 1980, and loaded them with Peavey 4 ohm black widows. They are very transparent, which would be great for PA application, but they have never impressed me much for a bass stage sound. I always wondered if the resonance difference between the Peavey and EV drivers could have been the achilles heel. I like a tight, funk type sound, with plenty of drive and clarity. How do the B115 Avatar cabinets compare? Thanks in advance!

    Leigh Vail
     
  2. From my experience the B115 cab is nice and punchy for a 15 but lacks in mid clarity. I like the tight low end it brings when run with another cab with smaller drivers but don't consider it a stand alone cab.
     
  3. BTW I modded my cabs with internal bracing which increased the tight sound so I don't exacly remember how they sounded before.
     
  4. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    Have you tried tuning the port to the Peavey drivers? Which tuning option did you use? I've built several TL 606 clones, in fact I just loaded one into the van a minute ago. They want EVM15L; a lot of people put 15Bs in, and for standalone use for funk, 15L would be better, I think. In any case, they don't go super low, but thay are pretty tight sounding, and hve a bit of low-mid hump that a lot of people like. They do work well for PA with subs underneath them, BTW.

    A lot of people say it's too hard to tune a shelf-ported cab, but I've done it on my 606s a couple of times with no drama at all. I'm not gonna say what I tune 'em to, and this pair's a bit different than a true 606, but it's not the EV spec. :cool:
     
  5. JazzbassArt

    JazzbassArt

    Dec 12, 2004
    Andover, MN
    Thanks for the replies. I have been messing with the active electronics on the Fender, and have uncovered several very good (maybe not Schroeder type of very good) sounds. How would I go about tuning the port volume in laymans terms? I'm thinking of adding a second amp to bi-amp instead of a wholesale speaker change, until I can justify it. Thanks again. After 25 years of a Peavey Fury, I'm having fun!
     
  6. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Welcome back!!!

    The first cabinet I built after being away from bass playing from '82 to '96 was a TL-606 (mine has an EVM 15L in it).

    To lower the tuning frequency, you either have to cover part of the port opening (like EV suggests in the "step-down" mode..putting the cover across the middle of the port) or lengthening the shelf.

    To raise the port tuning, you'd have to shorten the (already short) shelf or increase the area of the port (not practical).

    The TL-606 is already tuned pretty high (don't recall the frequency without looking).

    If you're looking for tight, I doubt that dropping the tuning frequency is going to do it.

    Have you compared the tone of the cabinet on its side (port on one side) vs, port on the bottom, vs port on the top. Give 'em all a try and see what happens.

    If you're not afraid to put some screw holes in the front of the braces, try closing up the port altogether... It might sound bad but you shouldn't hurt anything.

    Have fun and keep us posted!
     
  7. Passinwind

    Passinwind I Know Nothing Supporting Member

    The TL-606 is already tuned pretty high (don't recall the frequency without looking).

    Problem is, non of us know what the actual overall tuning is with a Peavey Black Widow in there. The EV blueprints spec Fb (box frequency) at 55Hz in normal mode, and 40Hz in stepdown. F3 is spec'd at 63 and 78, respectively, and they give a "corrected with EQ" F3 at 42 in stepdown. All these when loaded with an EV 15L. BTW, they also spec the usable upper frequency limit at 1300 Hz.
     
  8. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    According to B Gavin's spreadsheet (Thanks Bruce!!!!), what I believe to be the Black Widow's Thiele-Small Parameters look like this...

    Fs=43.1 or 46.7 Hz

    Vas=6.78 or 6.64 Cu. Ft.

    Qts=0.36 or 0.34

    He also lists the T-S parameters for the EVM 15L Series II as

    Fs=43 Hz

    Vas=8.65 Cu. Ft (a 15B Series II is 7.95 Cu. Ft. otherwise they have the same Fs and Qts).

    Qts=0.238

    I didn't plug these numbers into WinISD to see how the plots look...
     
  9. JazzbassArt

    JazzbassArt

    Dec 12, 2004
    Andover, MN
    So, in layman terms, for a moist eyed country bumpkin from west central Illinois, how do the drivers (EV versus Peavey) compare in that TL-606? Thanks for the replies!
    Leigh
     
  10. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    I plugged the numbers into ISDonline at www.linearteam.dk

    Looks like in a perfect world, the Peaveys will be about 3dB louder up to about 200 Hz. Don't know how it works out in real life...suffice it to say that they're pretty darn close on paper (or virtual paper anyway).

    If you're looking for more clarity...perhaps a 2x10 cabinet or two on top of the 15s will give you what you're after.
     
  11. JazzbassArt

    JazzbassArt

    Dec 12, 2004
    Andover, MN
    Update: I made a port cover that was 100% of the opening, and A-B'd with the other cabinet in step down. Interestingly enough, my favorite combo is with 100% OPEN port volume on both. I ran these cabs so long ago with that single pickup, flat, noisey, Peavey Fury, that I didn't give enough experiment time with the active Jazz. I had to EQ the heck out the amp (Mark IV) with the Peavey, but now I find almost flat amp settings, and use the mid control on the Fender can produce an awesome sound for the $350.00 or so I have into both BW's and cabinet materials. Of course that is 1980 dollars. :rolleyes: Now I am looking at PLX1602!
     
  12. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Congratulations on your discovery!!!! It's very satisfying to discover that the geat that you have really does sound good afterall!

    A PLX1602 would be a poweramp that you can keep forever...they're clean, light and sound good.

    Have fun!!!