To all of you miking fellows...

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by Buddy Lee, Aug 20, 2002.

  1. Buddy Lee

    Buddy Lee

    May 5, 2002
    This one's for the cats that use mics instead of pick ups even in live situations.

    What mic do you use?
    What amp, what preamp (if any)?
    How do you prevent feedback?
  2. good question im interested:confused:
  3. mje


    Aug 1, 2002
    Southeast Michigan
    Last regular gig I used the old standby- a mike wrapped in foam, tied behind the tailpiece. We had a good PA, so I just used a direct feed and let the leader set the balance she wanted.

    We were a small acoustic group playing "initimate" (i.e., small) gigs so monitoring wasn't a problem. Neitherr was feedback.

    Lately I've been experimenting with an Audio Technica Pro35x clipped to the tailpiece and pointed near the f-hole. It's very directional so feedback is minimized, but whenever you have a big resonator like a bass feedback will be a problem if stage volume gets loud.
  4. LM Bass

    LM Bass

    Jul 19, 2002
    Vancouver, BC
    There might be some good stuff in the archives, if you hit your "search" button.

    That said, I use a Rode nt 3 into a Raven Labs MDB-1 into a Walter Woods head into Euphonic Audio CXL-110's. I'm pretty happy, though I think I will start using my EA Iamp 600 with the double bass soon, just for contrast.
  5. Sam Sherry

    Sam Sherry Inadvertent Microtonalist Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2001
    Portland, ME
    Euphonic Audio "Player"
    What mic do you use? Woof! I use the AMT clamp-on bass mic. The mic sounds great -- really natural, great 'air' and a breeze to work with. My guitarist has a mastering lab, and he's mighty darn happy with it.

    What amp, what preamp (if any)? 1982 Walter Woods WW-1; Euphonic VL-208 5-way; AMT factory upgrade FET preamp w/ XLR & 1/4" outputs.

    How do you prevent feedback? By being careful. I position my speakers, bass and body the mic doesn't see the speakers. It's not a problem.

    Some points of note about this setup:
    a) I still use my Underwood -- which sounds great with my bass and setup.
    b) The AMT preamp is outstanding XLR output but it doesn't have boatloads of gain through the 1/4" output.
    c) The AMT is built to transmit your sound, not to enhance it. If you aren't loving your sound, spend your money on a bass and catch up with the mic later.
    d) The AMT kit is expensive. You're buying custom-built, handmade, spare-no-trouble gear. If you're attracted to that kind of stuff (if, for instance, Walter Woods is your guy) then the AMT is worth the bucks. I chose the AMT over the K&K because I was willing to spend $300 extra bucks to add a component which matched the quality of my bass and rig.
    e) You can't buy the endorsement of John Pattitucci, Ron Carter, Ray Parker, Dave Liebman and his bassist, Tony Marino, Rufus Reed, Michael Brecker, Herbie Hancock . . . . those guys have ears.
  6. Monte


    Jan 9, 2001
    New Albany, MS
  7. AKG c4000b set to hypercard, -10db, and usually bass roll-off 100hz; no preamp; AI Contra; strategic placement
  8. I use a pickup sometimes, but often I've worked with some competant soundmen who have been able to get excellent results with the AKG 3000, and 4000 models. I believe that they also used (as above) the hypercardioid and -10db setting.

    In a live recital recording though, I got excellent results from a pair of Neumann KM184s placed about 3 rows out. This was run into a Mackie 1604vlz board and a DAT machine, (Sony, unsure of model).
    In the stress of a performance, sometimes I haven't had a chance to learn what equipment is being used. I would advise anyone to take special notice of what works well. As long as you are courteous, usually they are glad to explain things for you.
  9. jflojazz


    Jan 2, 2004
    Portland Or
    I am buying an atm 35x pro mic and either a sabine fbx solo mic preamp /feedback destroyer or a spinoff behringer shark. My goal is to have loud natural tone from my bass during live gigs that get pretty loud.( drums ,accordion, djembe)
    If this setup works I will (when I get rich hee hee) upgrade to an AMT mic and keep the FBX or shark thingy.
    I will let everyone know how this feedback eliminator thing works.
    For rehearsals i go unamped and record them with a minidisc and AT822 stereo mic . I love the natural sound of my 1943 Kay and weichs the minidisc picks up. I want that sound live.
    I use a Euphonic Audio iamp500 and Cxl 112
    Anyones tips and comments are greatly appreciated.
    here are the bands I play in
  10. Ed Fuqua

    Ed Fuqua

    Dec 13, 1999
    Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
    I use a Sennheisser MD 409 (which has been discontinued and replaced by the 609). I currently use a Latin Percussion CLAW to attach the mic to the bass, the guys at Gage beveled a channel in my tailpeice and then made a little ebony "lozenge" that glued in the channel. This provides a place for the grip end of the CLAW to go. The mic usually goes up between the bridge feet. I am looking for a different "stand" solution, if I can get a small gooseneck and some other "clip" mechanism.

    I swear I'll post pitchers soon.

    I don't put the mic through the amp, I put it through whatever house system there is. Even if that's just the crappy 6 channel Peavey that the singer brings. If there's not a PA and I can't do the gig acoustically (just bass, no PA or amp) then I just bring the amp and use the Realist.

    No pre amp, going through the house with either no bass or only a small amount of bass in the monitors, feedback has never been a problem.
  11. Joe Smithberger

    Joe Smithberger Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2002
    Canton, Ohio, USA
    Stupid question...if you are regularly using a bass rolloff on the preamp and a hypercardoid capsule, how much do you gain with these, much better, mics over something more pedestrian like a Shure Beta 57 for live use?
  12. larry

    larry Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2004
    I have tried my best to use a mic instead of a pick-up, but it's tough to get the right sound. I now do about the same that Ed said he does, I use a pick-up for my amp and a mic for the PA. I use a Fishman Full Circle for my amp (SWR SM900 head & Bergantino EX112 cab and/or Bergantino HT210 cab) and I use a Shure Beta 98 H/C mic (comes with a clamp that I put on the bridge) and run that to the PA. Since the mic sound goes to the house, I don't feedback and it sounds like a bass should to the audience. I did a local TV gig that was recorded in a large hall recently and three different guys from the tech crew came up to me and raved about my sound.
  13. IMO, it is close to impossible to get a decent sound when using a mic and a BASS amp. I believe this is a recipe for feedback and other horrors, and not will not help in obtaining the sound you are after with a mic. Amps like the Schertler, and perhaps the AI (haven't tried it myself) are far better than SWR etc. for use with a mic. I myself use a Neumann KM 185 mic (= a hypercardioid mic), together with a SPL Gainstation mic preamp, a Lab Gruppen studio power amp and one or two Glockenklang Acoustic Art cabs, which actually are studio monitors, modified to survive the rigors of live gigging. The sound is close to perfect (if there is such a sound), and feedback can be controlled very effectively. I don't think I will ever go back to using a pickup with my bass, although I have a Schertler Dyn-B, which is a very good pickup. However, in direct comparison with my Neumann, I prefer the mic any time.

  14. Steve Swan

    Steve Swan

    Oct 12, 2004
    Burlingame, California
    Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
    For the last 5 years I've used a little AKG C419 saxophone clip-on microphone. I made a little bracket for it out of plumber's tape that is held in place by the string balls of the E and G strings. It's great with my little SWR amp for sound reinforcement for small restaurants or I can take a signal out of the amp or just go into the sound system on a larger stage. The AKG is so small that it doesn't affect the movement of the top or tailpiece. It's the most natural sound that I've gotten since I started playing 25 years ago. In the mid-80s I used a Radio Shack knockoff of the Crown PZM microphone. I mounted it to the tailpiece with a few threaded studs and wing nuts. It was so much better than wrapping a Shure SM 57 in a bar towel and stuffing it under the tailpiece to damp the top! The AKG has been my step up from the old $35.00 PZM that finally died.

    Steve Swan
  15. This is interesting. I've wondered about using one of those PZM mics. (Pressure Zone Mic)

    They're supposed to work best when they're laid on a large flat surface. The 3-inch square baseplate that the mic element is screwed to is the minimum size to get you any sort of bass end, and a floor or wall augments the response to that of a normal mic. If you hung one on string in the middle of a room the bass response would be poor, but that baseplate is necessary to put the mic element at the correct distance for the pressure zone effect to work. You wouldn't want a giant baseplate as the mic would become unweildy, but you can use a floor or wall instead.

    So... what if you took the mic element off the supplied baseplate and used a large flat surface like ... the body of a double bass?

    How did your rig sound, Steve? I would think that the tailpiece didn't have enough surface area to pump up the bottom end, but if you gigged with it I guess it must have been okay. But what would happen if you could fix the mic element to the bass body?

    You'll understand I'm not offering MY bass up to have screw holes drilled through the top....
  16. Steve Swan

    Steve Swan

    Oct 12, 2004
    Burlingame, California
    Retailer: Shen, Sun, older European
    The PZM that I bought in 1985(?) was a light year's leap from the SM57 wrapped in a towel. The bass that I used the PZM for was an incredibly light, cheap 3/4 flatback German bass from about 1900. That critter only weighed 16 lbs. and sang like bullfrog on the low end. I didn't have a separate amp for it back then and the house PAs that I used for restaurant and bar gigs usually had plenty of bass for me.

    When I got the AKG, I used the PZM to record rehearsal sessions in my Burlingame guitar and bass shop. A couple of push pins through the mounting holes held the PZM to the wall. Sometimes I would place it on the floor in the center of a vocal practice circle. The sound with a large flat surface was amazing. I'm glad that higher quality alternatives exist now. The square metal plate, about 5 or so inches square was much heavier than this little AKG C419 that I use now. I hardly ever play with elecric instruments and never play with drums, so the sound levels that we use don't ever cause feedback. I use a 4/4 (really a 7/8 size) Paesold that is very loud on its own.

    Steve Swan
  17. That would be an interesting experiment - although the operating principle of a PZM is that the element is placed a very small distance (not touching) from a boundary, the area of which determines the extent of the bass response. For practical purposes, the PZM element is placed very close to (not touching) a 6" x 6" plate, which can then be placed flat against a surface (floor, wall, ceiling) thus extending the bass response. The polar-response pattern of a PZM can be considered to be a hemisphere on the surface, with the PZM at the centre. If the PZM element were mounted on the bass, the bass would now be the surface against which the mic element would be working. This might be analogous to micing a room by sensing the walls vibrating rather than the air vibrating inside the room…

    - Wil
  18. B. Graham

    B. Graham Guest

    Aug 11, 2002
    I use an Audix D4. It's primarily marketed as a kick drum mic, but I like it VERY much for a bass mic for the following reasons:

    It will take high SPL's
    Tight pattern for less bleed
    Does not require phantom power
    Small size

    I've got a few condensors, which I like a lot as well, but the Audix is simply easier to deal with and sounds great.

    No amp. Sometimes an ART Tube MP. No EQ other than the board. No feedback.

    Good luck.
  19. SD Systems HCL 100 mic which comes with its own line level delivering pre-amp into an AI Contra.

    Feedback is not a problem. I got a few squeaks at first but you've got to point the bass at the speaker to do that. At very high volumes I turn the tweeter off. The eq is usually flat. IMO and those around me it sounds good. I feel no need at all to get a pickup.
  20. ctxbass

    ctxbass Supporting Member

    Nov 6, 2003
    Central Texas
    Another SD Systems HCL 100 mic user here. Great, accurate reproduction.
    I even used this mic to record a Steinway grand and it sounds wonderful.