To be PC on TB

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by Chasarms, Aug 27, 2001.

  1. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Saint Louis, MO USA
    I have enjoyed this forum for a few months now and certainly wish to continue, but I gotta get something off of chest.

    I have noticed that if I (or other members for that matter) post some sort of statement about how something sounds or some other obvious opinion, there is about a 25 percent or better chance that I will get flamed if I don't preface my comments with sort of little acronym or abreviation. Not that it matters that much. I am a pretty big believer in the whole sticks and stones thing, but it seems a little silly. We are all adults here, or at least hope to be someday.

    If I write it, doesn't it make it my opinion? This isn't a legal trial nor I am I seeking political office, so can't we all lighten up a bit?
  2. XavierG

    XavierG In Memoriam

    I know exactly where you're coming from. It does get a bit silly, I mean, it should be pretty obvious to anyone that when someone makes a statement, that statement would likely be their own opinion. And that's YOUR opinion! (Heck, it might even be my own... but I'll wait and see what the fallout is like before I lay claim to it.)
  3. I know what you mean, but I don't really agree. The nature of Internet communication, being so limited in terms of nuance and inflection, makes things like those "little acronyms" pretty useful IMO [ha]. As for opinion, some of the stuff discussed here aren't about opinions but about facts, and it's helpful to distinguish between the two. Too often, opinion gets presented as fact, and that can be especially misleading to newbies, who may not have a very broad acquaintance with either.

    IMHO, of course.

    So no, the fact that you're writing something doesn't necessarily mean that it's your opinion. Sometimes it means that you're stating something is a fact, and if you disagree, you're not different but wrong.

    And is it really all that hard to type an IMO or an IME here or there? Is it that much harder than saying please or thank-you once in a while? To me, these are the same kinds of things: not "PC" at all--whatever that much-abused and much-misunderstood term even means any more--but matters of simple politeness.

    Can we all lighten up a little? Sure, why not?

    On the other hand, is it so hard to exert a very small bit of effort to distinguish our personal preferences from our actual knowledge? I'd hope not.

    And lest anyone think I'm advocating thought control, or censorship, or indiscriminate flaming of verbal heretics, or banning, or any of the usual paranoid worries, I'm not. I'm just saying, in an inherently limited communication medium, it's both sensible and polite to take a very small extra bit of trouble to make sure your thoughts and intentions are clear.

  4. XavierG

    XavierG In Memoriam

    I don't know, Richard. It seems to me that common sense dictates that certain things are factual and beyond subjective interpretation. Common sense should be your guide. If I say, "basses have strings", you might gather that that is not an opinion. However, if I say "roundwounds are better than flatwounds", you should instantly know that this is an opinion. Should I preface my first statement with "IMHO" just in case? I just don't buy it. I can't understand why anyonw can have trouble distinguishing between fact and opinion. Granted, someone may present something as fact, and be totally incorrect- ie. I might say "Pedulla Basses are made in Korea". That is not an opinion, rather an error in the presentation of facts - a different ballgame altogether.
  5. Well, maybe, X, but do we all have the same degree of common sense? Or basic knowledge to begin with? I don't think so, and many of the threads here would back me up, I believe.

    If you're a newbie, you don't necessarily know that "roundwounds are better than flatwounds" is opinion and not fact. You may know that, and I may know that, but they may not.

    And if you're a very opinionated person--generic you, not you personally--you probably *will* tend to confuse your opinions with fact. I see it every day on this forum--and this forum is far better than many I could name in this regard. It doesn't necessarily hurt me, if it's something I know better about, but I just hate to see misinformation passed off as knowledge and opinion passed off as fact to those who are trying to increase their knowledge and develop their tastes. It helps no one, and it's irritating as hell.

    This is by no means the world's most burning issue, and it doesn't keep me up at nights. This is just the way I feel about it, that's all.:D
  6. XavierG

    XavierG In Memoriam

    I guess I'm just a skeptical S.O.B.! I don't accept anything as factual, until I've had a chance to look into it and confirm that it is, in fact, fact (redundant, aren't I?). I don't care who the information comes from, until I verify it, it is an opinion. The onus is on the reader to confirm that what is presented as fact is just that. And that's my opinion. And it's fact too! Well, it's fact to me - though it may be an opinion to you. Whatever.
  7. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Saint Louis, MO USA
    I do agree with X that there is a certain "buyer beware" when it comes to info on the net. Fact isn't really fact until you can confirm it in some other way.

    But to staddle the fence, I get what Richard is saying. I would be the first person to stand up for good manners. I also agree that we all should attempt to discourage the spread of misinformation.

    The only thing is that I can not recall a single instance where I have been flamed that anyone with even enough sense to communicate on this forum would not understand that my statements were opinion, yet they still felt the need to light me up. So, this leads me to believe that they were doing it just to be petty. That's why I asked them to lighten up.

    Most of the time, the original post sets up responses as to fact or opinion. If a person asks "which is better" or "what do you think" then enough has been said already. Or "how do you calculate ohm load?" offers little room for opinion. If the question is more along of the lines of "will this blow up my amp?" then there is a sometimes a little grey area. But even then, I can't imagine a situation were a simple admission of opinion changes the nature of the post.

    Even fact doesn't make it valid. I could make this statement as absolutely true fact. "I used a guitar cable for a speaker cable on a 350 watt head for two years when I was a teenager and it never damaged anything." That is true. I did that, but it is still my opinion (knowing what I know now) that it not a good idea to use a guitar cable for a speaker cable. We all have to take everything we read here as simply the result of someone's personal experience.

    If anyone disagrees with my statements about a particular subject, he or she can call me an idiot, and there's no need to tell me that it is your opinion.

    But I am the new guy. I don't want to take my ball and go home, so I'll play by the rules.
    That's all.
  8. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    i don't think that someone disagreeing with someone else's opinion is PC. quite the contrary, in fact - it would be pretty lame if everyone agreed.

    i don't think that it's bad that people get passionate in their responses either. i think that the mods do a pretty good job of keeping personal crap out of it.
  9. XavierG

    XavierG In Memoriam

    Okay. To recap, if the statement isn't preceeded by "IMHO" then it's fact. But if it's incorrect, then it isn't fact, even if it isn't preceeded by "IMHO". In which case, it is fiction. However, if it is preceeded by "IMHO", and yet, is wrong, then it's a fictional opinion that could have been fact were it not for the fact that it was preceeded by "IMHO", thereby rendering it a fictional opinion, which may be misconstrued as a lie. Now, if the writers opinion was a blatant lie......

    Thank heaven's we got this one sorted out.
  10. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga
    exactly!!! :D
  11. alexssandro

    alexssandro Guest

    Jun 7, 2000
    Houston, Texas
    As far as I'm concerned, PC means only one thing to me: Paul Chambers! ;)
  12. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Inactive

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    I'm with Richard, sometimes it just makes it easier to sort out fact from opinion. For instance, a common admonition here and elsewhere is to not use roundwounds on a fretless...they will destroy your fretboard. This is not usually stated as opinion but rather fact. I've actually dug a little deeper with some people who have said this and found that some have never owned a fretless and are simply passing on what they'd heard, as fact;)

    There are ways to state opinions as opinions but some don't seem to have a grasp of that, be it the writer or the reader. For them IMO and the like can be invaluable.

    That's a fact:D
  13. XavierG

    XavierG In Memoriam

    Damn you, Brad. Just when I thought I had it all sorted out...
  14. john turner

    john turner You don't want to do that. Trust me. Staff Member

    Mar 14, 2000
    atlanta ga

    (curly howard voice on)

    who says this?!?! let me at 'em!! i'll murtolate 'em

    :D ;)
  15. Fact: Alexssandro is a person of impeccable taste! IMO!
  16. ColonelZulu

    ColonelZulu Not Impressed By Those Who Flaunt “Authority” Supporting Member

    Apr 14, 2001
    Be careful, you forgot to turn the Curly Howard voice mode off!!:p

    Alright numbskulls (IMO - In Moe's Opinion)! I've had a problem with this from the beginning. I like to joke. Even in person, many people don't get it until later. Subtle to a fault. I've had too many seemingly innocent postings or emails inappropriately misinterpreted. It would be a happy internet world if everyone were on the same wavelength as I.

    Maybe that's the fun of it though. In person we alter out communication to fit the audience (individual or collective). Sometimes that's based on our own biases on age, sex, etc. The only assumptions we make here are that the audience consists of bassists. Even there you will have different degrees of bassisisity.

    I think it is prudent, though not required, to provide clarification in cases where you'd otherwise not. Seeing as there are probably posters from 12 to 75 years old here and from all over the world to boot, it's may prevent a needless misunderstanding.

    ++++Though I'm a hypocrite cuz I hardly ever do this++++
  17. Bass Guitar

    Bass Guitar Supporting Member

    Aug 13, 2001
    Word of the day.

    BASSISISITY - a measure of how much one is a bassist, or a measure of the intensity of bassiness in a certain place or time.

    For example: "The bassisisity level in this guitarist lounge room is essentially negative two."

    Or: "Man, the bassisisity during that bass solo was intense!"

    Or: "You have high bassisisity, my friend."

  18. Chasarms

    Chasarms Casual Observer

    May 24, 2001
    Saint Louis, MO USA
    Does bassisity increase by exponential or linear factors?

    What is the range?

    Is there any cool little symbol or abbreviation that goes after the value so we all know we are talking bassisity?

    Which brings me to the last question. Why is a word like abbreviation so long?
  19. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Inactive

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    I'm getting dizzy:eek:
  20. Well, this is IMHO, chas, but -

    I was actually thinking the same thing this morning in regard to another board I visit. It would be incredibly nice not to feel like we have to leave an escape hatch open for so many things we post here. I am very sure I can back up whatever I state factually just in case. If my facts pale in the face of someone's better facts or experience, then I'll defer to them and learn.

    But there is an itchy trigger finger attitude I think that some people have and I wish they could lose. It seems to me three things are going on there -

    1. The feeling they have to defensively check back on threads everytime someone posts after them, "just to be sure" no one took a shot at them. Amazing as it may seem to some, many people actually have interesting comments that have nothing to with earlier posts.

    2. Some people opening up an existing thread to see what others have posted that they can disagree with. If I see another post in amps that disrespectfully disagrees with a previous post because it is "31.5Hz's, not, 31," (which actually happened a while back), I'm going to lose my lunch.
    If it's significant to a bassist, fine. But, I wish they'd ask themselves first, "Is this really a big deal?"

    3. Mommy and daddy didn't give them enough attention.

    Honest peoples posts are based on their opinions, experiences, and the facts available to them. If someone contradicts them politely and factually, (like everyone I've seen who has posted here so far), with their own, fine. Hopefully, we'll come up with something better than all the acronyms. The electronic community is still forming its culture.