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to those who need more power than an SVT-CL [Doom]

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by bovine mind, Apr 3, 2009.


  1. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    why and when did you decide that? this is for those who play small to medium sized venues with decent PA support.

    epsecially for those fond of heavier genres & stage volume enthusiasts...at what point did you decide an SVT didn't have enough volume for your needs, and what did you try next?

    in my case, i've settled on the fact that i need totally unreasonable amounts of volume. i need to be encased in nauseating bass from head to toe and be heard over a full stack and heavy handed drummer. it doesn't help that white light / great annihilator period SWANS is my favorite band.

    i finally got my SVT-CL back from the shop after some tube issues and the amp sounds better, but still not as loud as i thought it'd be through an 810 and 215 running at 2 ohms. i mean yes, it's loud. but my rig is still not giving me the full body experience i'm looking for. the room acoustics in our practice space are horrible as well.

    i have great faith in my tech, and he's serviced a fellow doom oriented band i know, so i can only assume my amp has a clean bill of health now with a full matched set of tubes. at this point i have to ask myself if i should add another amp, or what.
     
  2. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    Sheesh! Yeah, I've heard of a guy who wasn't loud enough with one SVT head so he uses two...his name is Cliff Williams, and he plays in AC/DC ;)

    I might consider a second head, but I would probably try to borrow a second 810 cab first and see if that makes enough difference for you. Love a good 215 rig but not with an 810. An 810 running split power with a 215 will bury the 215.
     
  3. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    yeah that would make sense, as the amp was originally designed to power two 810's. i can definitely notice the benefits the 215 adds, a little more rump and overall volume, but it may not be the best option with my 810.

    what about a sub or 18" instead? i've come close to trying but run out of money each time.

    also, how should i arrange my cabs? our practice space isn't a hangar, so i have them side by side, with the 810 in a corner and the 215 off the side, angled slightly away. when i get ten feet from them the tone is noticeably more nasally and thin.

    i finally had my old sunn coliseum fixed, only have it vibrate off of the 215 one night and smash onto the floor. i think i may bring it back into the fold after i have it repaired [again].
     
  4. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    A sub won't add volume except in the lowest freqs. I don't know...some people do it, but I fail to see the point if you're looking for overall volume boost.
     
  5. I would say get a second amp or power amp...but i mean i run a 610HLF and a SVTPRO6 and it about kills me...so i cant really fathom why you would need all that volume. PA system is your friend!!! Or if youre really having problems hearing then get a nice triple driver set of in-ear monitors. I use those and the sound is outstanding. Hope i could help
     
  6. I would check to make sure that all of the speakers are working in the 8x10 and also be sure to check the polarity of all of the speakers to make sure that none of them are out of phase as that will just kill your DB output.
    JimmyM is right in the fact that you need more 10s or even 12s to cut through the mix, 15s and 18s are more of what I consider to be low end reinforcement.
    I have found that sometimes running 2 different brand cabs can really enhance each other or hurt but you dont know until you try them.
    Can you run a Slave Amp from the SVT and ad a 4x10 or another 8x10 along with the current 2x15 and 8x10?
    I would check out the speakers in your 8x10 first that doesnt cost anything,just because they are all moving doesnt mean that they are all working I have seen as many as 3 speakers in a 8x10 not working and they didnt even know it.
    Steve
     
  7. Bassmec

    Bassmec

    May 9, 2008
    Ipswich UK
    Proprietor Springvale Studios
    Didn't the bass player of the Swans also do the lead vocal?.
    Heres the trick!. Set up a microphone in your rehearsal room so that its as loud as possible before feedback then while singing along in a drone'y sort of Joy Division style turn up the bass to the point at which
    you begin to drown the vocal then turn down a bit then taking a leaf out of Phil Spectors book by using a large caliber hand gun for indicating up or down in level of the gui****s and other band members amps master volumes.
    So now if you can still just about hear the your vocal you will find you have plenty of spare power in your amp and cab setup.
    We call that mixing in the trade.
    When physics shows you a finite limit IE how loud are the Vox's before feedback in any one room-space, you will find its the VOX that defines how loud you play not the gui****, thats why you need the gun!.
    You don't sing though do ya.:ninja:
     
  8. Buster666

    Buster666

    Nov 29, 2008
    One problem with most bass rigs is that they are not arranged as a "line Array" meaning that they spill too much off to the sides and don't project into the audience. So after you hook however many of your favorite power amps up to the pre-out, start stacking cabinets until the max db is really hitting the audience in the face. Just Google "curvilinear line arrays" for a technical explanation. Or ponder the picture and figure how much money you are willing to spend.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    as far as i know the cab is fine, but this is the first classic and 810 i've owned. are there any ways to test the speakers myself without having to drag it to a tech? i bought the cab from a guitar shop, and it's only four years old or so, so i assume it should be in working order...

    for a while i thought it might have been a problem with my stingray, but i've had that checked out at the shop as well.
     
  10. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    If you just move your head around and put an ear up to every speaker and focus in on that one speaker, you should be able to tell.
     
  11. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    i've tried it before, but i'll try it again tonight.

    it could very well be that everything is operating fine and the whole unreasonable part of my brain is craving more. probably the latter, ha.
     
  12. Sometimes, I think my rig isn't really all that loud. I think, even at high volumes, you get used to hearing it, so it's initial "HOLY GODDAMN F**K" factor is sort of lost after hearing it so many times. But all it takes to remind me of how loud it is, is that I can't even hear MYSELF talk unless I'm yelling, that and we've had a few people tell us we're one of the loudest bands they've ever heard. I don't think we are, as I've heard louder, but hey, a compliment is a compliment. :smug:
     
  13. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    +umpteenmillion indeed. the threshold melts after about an hour of playing and tweaking EQ to the point where i have no idea what i actually sound like. most people think we're plenty loud, but the hunger persists.

    of course, the biggest indicator of foolish volume is the fact that we mic everything on the drums, and dude does not have a light touch. it's just got to be aggressive or go home. and so of course, i have trouble hearing myself, but i think we'll get the balance right eventually.
     
  14. Jim C

    Jim C Is that what you meant to play or is this jazz? Supporting Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    Bethesda, MD
    Brilliant mate.
    Have worked in US studios for many years and have never gone that route; perfect.
    Should have known the British would have figured this out; after all you gave us Neve and SSL!
    Well done; not often that one can get a proper technical and musical solution in the same post.
     
  15. My drummer is a hard hitter (I've seen him break like 5 sticks a show) and on top of that, he knows how to tune his drums to make them ungodly loud. I'm still louder than everything on his kit aside from cymbals and the snare, I don't drown him out or anything, it's mixed just right.

    As far as the EQ thing... I used to have the Boss bass EQ pedal, and even through my 4x10/1x18 in my room with the volume on 2, I would sit there and tweak the pedals settings until I got sick of hearing bass. Luckily I got rid of that pedal and am much happier relying on the simple tone controls on my Sunn Concert Bass.
     
  16. JimmyM

    JimmyM

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    EQ's are like condoms...sometimes you need one, but if you don't it's a lot better.
     
  17. I know what you mean Matt, it seems like there's never enough. It's all relative though like someone said- you get used to your ridiculous volume and after a while it's like "man i'm not really that loud". Hell, when we play clubs with a crappy or no sub equipped PA i take an 8x10 and 2x15 pushing 1600w and half way through the first song i'm like "i can't hear myself!" haha. I have to remember that i'm not standing 15 feet in front of my cabs where the bass is just starting to develop.

    We get the same thing at shows too- people tell us how the volume is almost unbearable. I say when we do that show together someday we daisy chain our bass rigs :)
     

  18. 2000 watts total (maybe 2200 since I'm planning on buying a second Concert Slave when one pops up)
    4x10
    8x10
    4x12
    1x18
    2x15
    2x15
    2x15

    We will call it, F**K MOUNTAIN. I am in no way shape or form kidding about this... I am 100% on board with this idea. :D :bassist:
     
  19. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    still not sure how i should arrange the cabs...i can't stack them, the 2x15 is too huge and the ceiling is low in the space. maybe one on the other side of the room? i'd like to be able to FEEL the bass from any point in the room if possible, and be heard.
     
  20. bovine mind

    bovine mind

    Jun 17, 2008
    San Francisco
    yep, that's my experience about 75% of the time. so where do you stand?
     

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