Tommy Cogbill's 66 P bass

[Fender1980]

It's getting pumped Tommy Cogbill's 1966 P-Bass Up For Auction

I'm really split - don't want to see something like this misrepresented and would like to see the family get as much as they reasonably can.

It's more than likely a bass owned by Tommy Cogbill.

We have no photographic evidence that it was played on Aretha Franklin nor Elvis sessions.

There's photographic evidence that other basses were used on those recordings.

Studio musician guitars are really a mixed bag. Many times they just aren't famous enough to draw premium prices.

For example, Eddie Willis' Gibson Firebird which actually was used on many of the Motown hits with Eddie being alive at the time, sold for around $12K in 2012.

 

[Matt O]

Still cool but 100% NOT the bass with Elvis.

I agree 100%

 

[DJ Bebop]

I really had no idea and didn't research what Jack played on recordings, I had just seen a lot of pics of Jack with a VERY highly modified Guild Starfire with all kinds of added knobs & switches. I'm sure it would be more valuable than a stock Starfire just because of who did the mods.View attachment 5105067

Maybe I should have used Phil Lesh's Alembic….

View attachment 5105083

Yep the Grandfather bass another heavy Alembic-modified Guild bass...

His first full Alembic bass, Mission Control.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Yep the Grandfather bass another heavy Alembic-modified Guild bass...

View attachment 5105112

View attachment 5105134

His full Alembic bass, Mission Control.

View attachment 5105135

And now...

 

[tvbop]

Total crap shoot it could be anything.

 

[P. Aaron]

Funky Broadway barely 2 minutes long but by the time I'm done listening, I've played 5 or 6 times in a row.

 

[Matt O]

I just sent an email to the auction house with a link to this thread and a suggestion they contact Gruhn to authenticate their claims.

I do not think for a second anyone would pay the $75k opening bid let alone the $100-150k auction estimate, but it sure would suck for someone to buy that bass thinking it was on all those records and Elvis once jammed on it.

 

[Chickenwheels]

I femember Schecter used to produce gold anodized pickguards. They also sold P Bass bodies cut from Zebra Wood and Purpleheart alongside necks that were solid rosewood. Beautiful to lock at but kind of heavy.

Yep. Schecter was my first thought on seeing brass/gold/big magnets on pickup.

 

[Fender1980]

I just sent an email to the auction house with a link to this thread and a suggestion they contact Gruhn to authenticate their claims.

I do not think for a second anyone would pay the $75k opening bid let alone the $100-150k auction estimate, but it sure would suck for someone to buy that bass thinking it was on all those records and Elvis once jammed on it.

I sent one earlier too.

There's another photo of Tommy with the "elvis" bass.

 

[Matt O]

I sent one earlier too.

There's another photo of Tommy with the "elvis" bass.

View attachment 5105321

You can see the relocated tug bar even better in this photo.

 

[Fender1980]

I found the "provenance booklet". There's more photos and a simple signed letter that may be well intentioned, but states a clear Elvis link that may not be true.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Matt O]

I found the "provenance booklet". There's more photos and a simple signed letter that may be well intentioned, but states a clear Elvis link that may not be true.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

In the letter, she states Elvis is holding "his bass", not "this bass". Technically true. Don't know if it's intentional, but the letter leaves open a legal loophole. This whole thing is pretty dodgy. I doubt we'll hear back from the auctioneers.

 

[bobyoung53]

This bass definitely falls into the 'period mods' camp, which is quite cool. A lot of working instruments went through this treatment.


Slightly galling when players took 1962 Stratocasters, refinished them a brighter colour, added a locking trem and hotter pickups, only for Pensa Suhr to come along and build the guitars these players were trying to mod their way towards in the '70s and '80s.

Where do you think Suhr got the idea? Players were throwing J and Tele pickups on P basses way before Fender did it.

 

[Ric Vice]

Have seen numerous late '59s with tort - even with three different screw patterns: 10, 11 and 13 hole. Have certainly seen more '59s with tort/slab combo than gold guard/slab combo. Have never seen any early '60 with gold guard.

1959 was a transitional year for the Fender Precision. Once the decision was made to move to the Tortoise Shell pickguard and the Rosewood
Fingerboard, there would have been maple neck blanks that had already been drilled for hardware installation, with the fret slots cut and finished anodized pick-guards.
Factories just don't throw out last years parts and "start over" with new stuff. So they used up all the finished necks (fret slots finished) and rosewood fingerboards were installed on the partially roughed out necks until they were gone. Then they used up all the anodized pick guards that were finished and moved to the tort ones.
My understanding is that both those changes were for entirely practical reasons. The anodized aluminum pick guards were more difficult to work with in some ways, because you had to scrape off the anodizing to ground the tone and volume controls. The soldering on those connections sometimes had to be re done. Cutting the fret slots directly into the neck requires some skill and if something goes awry you have to "start over" possibly trashing a neck. The rosewood boards solved that problem.
By 1960 they had this all sorted out. Just my take of course. Sorry for the long winded expose.

 

[Dynacord]

1959 was a transitional year for the Fender Precision. Once the decision was made to move to the Tortoise Shell pickguard and the Rosewood
Fingerboard, there would have been maple neck blanks that had already been drilled for hardware installation, with the fret slots cut and finished anodized pick-guards.
Factories just don't throw out last years parts and "start over" with new stuff. So they used up all the finished necks (fret slots finished) and rosewood fingerboards were installed on the partially roughed out necks until they were gone. Then they used up all the anodized pick guards that were finished and moved to the tort ones.
My understanding is that both those changes were for entirely practical reasons. The anodized aluminum pick guards were more difficult to work with in some ways, because you had to scrape off the anodizing to ground the tone and volume controls. The soldering on those connections sometimes had to be re done. Cutting the fret slots directly into the neck requires some skill and if something goes awry you have to "start over" possibly trashing a neck. The rosewood boards solved that problem.
By 1960 they had this all sorted out. Just my take of course. Sorry for the long winded expose.

Good info. Yes, lots of transitions all through these years and lots of overlap (they didn't happen neatly and completely on Jan 1st or anything...)
The only supposition I question there is "rosewood fingerboards were installed on the partially roughed out necks" being previous blanks for maple necks as the construction is different, rear routed truss rod channel for maple vs front for rosewood and those for rosewood could use slightly thinner blanks - neck blanks were dated after rough shaping and the routing of the channel (before the truss rod nut hole was drilled, neck profiled, etc).

The '59 Ps clearly divide into 3 basic versions, maple/gold guard, slab/gold guard and slab/tort. There are, of course, no solid production numbers but the slab/gold version has been the most scarce in my experience. I've only seen three in the flesh since 1980 but have encountered significantly more - relatively speaking - of the other variations.

 

[Fender1980]

The original session sheets for Elvis Presley recordings can be found at this website.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

BTW - both Tommy Cogbill and Mike Leech are credited as bass players ON THE ORIGINAL PAPERWORK for many of the Elvis Memphis sessions for 1969 even when 2 basses are not evident on the recordings.

They are both credited as "Bass" and getting paid as such. There are some tracks with uncredited percussion and some with secondary guitar. Both Mike Leech and Tommy Cogbill were capable of performing on these instruments also.

Note: The session paperwork is getting typed up 2 or 3 weeks after the initial session. They must be working off a handwritten source that doesn't exist any longer or was meant to exist until the formal paperwork was typed.
It's quite possible in some cases that the person doing the typing is working off of memory i.e. (Mike Leech is at the session. He plays bass. I'm typing "bass" without thinking. Tommy Cogbill is at the session too. He's a bass player etc)

With all that said...on "The Power Of My Love" it really sounds like 2 Fender basses are happening at the same time.

On "I'm Movin' On" there's a separate bass track on track 8 of the tape called "Lead bass". There is a "tick - tock" danelectro type part going on in the final mix too.

So...although for most of the Elvis Presley American Sound recording sessions there only seems to be 1 bass player at any given time, it's likely for at least a couple of songs that Tommy Cogbill and Mike Leech sound like they could be playing at the same time which would mean the need for another instrument besides the 1959 Fender Bass from the famous photos.

 

[Fender1980]

No bids for $75K. Bidding has been extended for 7 more days.

 

[Fender1980]

I believe the auctioneer must

I just sent an email to the auction house with a link to this thread and a suggestion they contact Gruhn to authenticate their claims.

I do not think for a second anyone would pay the $75k opening bid let alone the $100-150k auction estimate, but it sure would suck for someone to buy that bass thinking it was on all those records and Elvis once jammed on it.

I think the auctioneer must have heeded the information...somewhat.

The minimum bid was lowered to $25,000.00 and there were no bids on the 7 day extension.

Anyways I found another pretty cool bass line which seems likely to be attributed to Tommy Cogbill..."Everlasting Love" by "little" Carl Carlton.

Tommy Cogbill is credited as co-producer on the 45 rpm label and the "Everlasting Love" wiki page credits the engineer, studio, drummer Heyward Bishop, bass Tommy Cogbill, and guitarist Reggie Young from the fall of 1973.

Rufus bassist Dennis Belfield was credited earlier and it appears he's likely the bass player on the rest of the 1974 album which was produced by Rufus producer/manager Bob Monaco.

It gets confusing with Dennis Belfield because he played on the rest of the album AND a Rufus composition with the same name "Everlasting Love".

So anyways...away from American Studios and from NYC Atlantic Studios...this is probably the "Everlasting Love" bass.

 

[Ric Vice]

Good info. Yes, lots of transitions all through these years and lots of overlap (they didn't happen neatly and completely on Jan 1st or anything...)


The '59 Ps clearly divide into 3 basic versions, maple/gold guard, slab/gold guard and slab/tort. There are, of course, no solid production numbers but the slab/gold version has been the most scarce in my experience. I've only seen three in the flesh since 1980 but have encountered significantly more - relatively speaking - of the other variations.

I have heard a story that the serial no. plates were stamped and thrown into a bin. When a bass was ready for the neck installation, they just reached into the bin and pulled one out.

 

[Dynacord]

He's on motion picture film at Atlantic Studios in NYC circa 1967 playing a White P-Bass with a tort guard and rosewood board.

On most of the still photos online comes from a session where Tommy is playing guitar.

The auction is a bit vague considering the price.

"Zero" people in his family were at any of his famous sessions to see which bass he was actually playing.

Buyer beware.

Not a great resolution pic but gives the idea:

View attachment 5105025

Friend Brad Hallen put together a great video (well worth watching the whole thing) and it includes at least some of the footage with Aretha in the studio in NYC (playing an Oly White P) - starts at 19:25:

I bet sounds like this :

Though it's clear it was the '59 on the Elvis recordings...

I have heard a story that the serial no. plates were stamped and thrown into a bin. When a bass was ready for the neck installation, they just reached into the bin and pulled one out.

True. Though they have typical number ranges and pretty easy to ballpark the year based on the numbers, but far from exact science! The plates were done in batches and then just dumped in a bin - and those plates were shared over most models. I've posted it before but terrific article on Fender hardware:
How Fender's Golden-Era Hardware Was Made | Bacon's Archive