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Too much Bro Love for 12's?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by petrus61, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. petrus61

    petrus61 Supporting Member

    Just curious where all the 12'er fanbois are finding their niche, because my experience has pretty much always been that the guitar rigs (most commonly) over-stepped the freq's. I sort of self surmised that it was the odd pairing of so many 12's in a room...all the guitar rigs (at least the ones that made money) seemed to be packing 12 inches as well. I could'nt do it and am left scratching my head after seeing all the love for 'em. Enlighten me as to why my ears are wrong. :bag:
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are.


    Also check out the fEARful 12/6 or 1212/6
  3. lowfreq33


    Jan 27, 2010
    Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
    The guitar problem is most likely their settings, speaker size is largely irrelevant when it comes to tone.
  4. will33


    May 22, 2006

    Is that like a new hip saying or some term of endearment between the male of the species or something.?

    Not tryin' to be an ass, just don't understand. Perhaps maybe biamp curious or something.

    Anyway, what was your question again?
  5. christw

    christw Get low!

    May 11, 2008
    Dayton OH
    I want to be Tesla (tinkerer at Dayton Amp Co)

  6. will33


    May 22, 2006

    In all seriousness, there is some sort of accurate hearing going on with you, you're just attributing it to the wrong thing, that being the size of the driver. That "spec" if you will, is one of about 20-30 and is among the least important in the grand scheme of things. But, you're listening intently, hearing differences and wondering why.....that's a good start.
  7. will33


    May 22, 2006
    That cleared up a lot, man....Thanks. I wouldn't think to say this to somebody but I do have to decipher those that do.....which seems to be quite a few nowdays.:D
  8. christw

    christw Get low!

    May 11, 2008
    Dayton OH
    I want to be Tesla (tinkerer at Dayton Amp Co)
    Will33, as usual, I'm with you on this one. If the guitarists are stepping on the bassists sonic toes, it sounds like it's time to change something. Speaker size isn't something I ever consider in cabs. I trust my ears. Seems like the OP does too.

    Btw, OP-I've been in many bands where I tweak the guitarists amp's mid song so that it sits in the mix better. It has nothing to do with speaker size and usually has everything to do with tone that sounds good on it's own but sounds like total s*** in a band mix. In my case, usually they cut their mids again and turn the volume back up by the next song but it's worth a shot, right? ;)

    PS- Sorry if this is a little nonsensical. I'm drunk. ;)
  9. BrBss


    Jul 9, 2010
  10. Yes. The guitarist.
  11. DukeLeJeune

    DukeLeJeune rational romantic mystic cynical idealist Supporting Member Commercial User

    Nov 24, 2008
    Princeton, Texas
    Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
    At the risk of over-simplifying...

    The latest generation of high-output neodymium woofers from Eminence includes two 12" models, the Kappalite 3012LF and Kappalite 3012HO, that punch way above their weight class, the LF rivalling or surpassing most 15's in air-moving capability, and the HO rivalling or surpassing most 15's in efficiency while coming pretty close in air-moving capability. One or the other, or OEM variations thereof, give designers the opportunity to push the boundaries of performance in various areas. I believe credit is due Greenboy, as to the best of my knowledge his fEarful 12/6 was the first of the breed, and offers an extremely well thought-out combination of capabilities to this day.
  12. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Because the size of the driver has little to no bearing on the sound produced. This:
    Understanding Loudspeaker Data | Eminence Speaker
    and this:
    The Speaker Building Bible - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

    I was using 3012s and 3015s over a year before the fEarful, but who's counting? :)
  13. I'm a fan of my cabs with 12's... I have a Schroeder 1212+L and a Genz Uber 212, both have two 12" drivers and both have a tweeter but they sound COMPLETELY different. The speaker size matters not. Phil Jones anyone?
  14. christw

    christw Get low!

    May 11, 2008
    Dayton OH
    I want to be Tesla (tinkerer at Dayton Amp Co)
    Here's where I'm coming from: I make it my responsibility to fit the band. There are some circumstances where I struggle to find a frequency range to call my own and get heard in a busy mix. This is usually a problem I run into in metal or posthardcore bands with two or more 100+w guitar heads, deeply voiced 412s, and guitarists who run full range with lots of lows. Add in the potential for full range keyboards and a variety of sung and screamed vocals and it can be difficult to be heard. I'm never a guy to scoop and I usually focus on the mids in my tone if I need to cut through but that sometimes isn't enough.
  15. arthur31686

    arthur31686 Supporting Member

    Mar 7, 2011
    Good luck telling a clueless guitarist to turn down. Well it makes all that money spent on bigger rigs justified I guess.
  16. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    In defense of guitar'd players their speakers do have to be pushed hard to get a sweet tone from them. But if they learned about how their gear works they'd realize that they'd get the same tone at sensible levels with far better dispersion using a 1x12, or at most a vertically aligned 2x12, rather than a big rig. But that wouldn't have the same cool factor. :scowl:
  17. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2002
    This. In one way, I'm very lucky that my guitarist uses a 1x12 and low wattage tube amps. On the other hand, I've REALLY wanted to adjust his tone settings, but he would probably shoot me dead if I ventured hear his amp. For the love of GOD, ad some high end and back off the lows Mr. gui****.
  18. staindbass


    Jun 9, 2008
    i think you are asking why the guitars use 12's that overstep the bass region and make things difficult? distorted guitars sound horrible over 3k in frequency. so they use a larger speaker that limits the output over 3k. it sounds smoother and less edgy. unfortunately they put out more bass than they should , and come into our territory.
  19. R Baer

    R Baer Commercial User

    Jun 5, 2008
    President, Baer Amplification
    In bands where the guitarist has been a cooperative type, I've had amazing results improving the live stage sound, by just getting the guitarist to put his amp on a small tilt back stand. Aim those drivers at his head, instead of his knees and the volume comes right down immediately.
  20. CL400Peavey

    CL400Peavey Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2011
    Grand Rapids Michigan
    My gui****s have full stacks... One day I got to practice early and disconnected their bottom cabs. With the top 412 still pointed at their head they didnt even notice that they were running one cab, but did remark that volume was really in check that day.