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Traynor TC410 & TC115 -- phase issues?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by corganmurray, Apr 4, 2018.


  1. corganmurray

    corganmurray

    Feb 10, 2012
    Hey guys,

    Bit of an amp noob here. My band has recently started to play bigger gigs and my 1x15 combo isn't cutting it anymore, so yesterday I pulled the trigger on a Traynor TC410 cab from Long & McQuade, and I was planning to follow that up with a Traynor TC115, so I'd have a 4x10 + 1x15 stack (I'm still saving up for a head)

    After doing some searching around this site, I've found dozens of threads where people in a similar situation were warned that combining two non-matching cabs like that will likely lead to some phase issues, and it'd be better to just have two matching cabs.

    That said, I've never found a thread where the original poster came back and confirmed or even mentioned the phase stuff after the fact, and the Traynor site itself suggests combining these two cabs, so is this a legitimate concern, or can I trust in Traynor's suggestion or what?

    Sorry if I've reopened a can of worms here, and if someone can point me to an existing thread that I somehow missed, that'd be great!

    Cheers!
     
  2. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    Your 1x15 will be getting the same amount of watts as your 4x10. That's another problem besides comb filtering.

    Matching stackable cabs is the way to go.
     
    BassmanPaul likes this.
  3. You'll find that the going consensus on Talkbass would be to get 2 of the same cab.
     
  4. GrapeBass

    GrapeBass

    Jun 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Graphic designer: Yorkville Sound
    There should be no problem what-so-ever using these cabs. They're all checked for their phase cohesiveness. If you're unsure, get them to demo 'em at L&M.
     
  5. I have to agree with @Stumbo that you would be better of with two matching cabinets. Differing cabinets can work but are more problematic. A single 15 is no match for a 4x10. The output from a typical 15 is more akin to that of a 2x10.
     
  6. GrapeBass

    GrapeBass

    Jun 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Graphic designer: Yorkville Sound
    When you connect different rated cabs (impedance and/or wattage) in PARALLEL they act as a SYSTEM. The amplifier doesn't discriminate bias to either cab, it just 'sees' the system as one.

    FYI Guitar players have been using differently spec'd drivers in the same cab for eons.
     
  7. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Sure they act as a system, but there are well implemented systems and not so well implemented systems.

    Aside from phase coherence, power handling and impedance comes into play. Generally (though not always), a 410 cabinet will have greater power handling (sometimes by a factor of 2) than a 115. If this is the case, if you power the "system" to the safe limits of the 115, you may be giving up significant performance capability of the 410, but if you power the system to the limits of the 410 then you often find that the 115 gets damaged.

    There are some exceptions to this rule, but it's one to at least be aware of if you need to maximize the system performance while minimizing risk of damage.
     
    GrapeBass likes this.
  8. GrapeBass

    GrapeBass

    Jun 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Graphic designer: Yorkville Sound
    Most of the cabs I used with 4x10s used lighter cone and drivers and matched much better with their designed mated cabinets. I guess there was an advantage (in the day) to use more inexpensive multiple drivers than a heavier duty single one. I think that was the story around original designed 4x12s and 8x10s. Ampeg used fairly lightweight drivers BUT when used collectively (and sealed) performed quite nicely. Choice of drivers were much more limited in the day. I remember discussing the evolution of the 4x12 and it was brought up that the cabinet volume was determined more by the efficient use of 8x10 sheets of wood than actual calculations.
     
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Evolution occurs for many reasons, rarely just one.
     
    GrapeBass likes this.
  10. 1508077909872-1777987584.

    This is a great rig with no issues. Mismatched cabs are totally normal, no matter what some of the "collective wisdom" on TB says about it.

    Fwiw I now run an swr goliath ii 410 under that Traynor 210. It is the sound and power I've been looking for my whole life.
     
  11. Hows the volume in that rig. I always like those Traynors but every review i see it says that is not that loud. Is enough for stage volume?
     
  12. Easily enough for stage volume. 200 (likely a bit more) tube watts from 4 KT88s. It suffers a bit trying to do loud and clean because the preamp is intentionally easy to get distortion from - meant as a rock amp. I, like many others, swapped V1 for a less aggressive tube and have all the clean headroom I need. FWIW the built in DI is also world class (not surprising from the good folks at yorkville sound) so stage monitoring and front of house sound great roo.

    The biggest rooms I play are dance halls like the Legion and the KOC, so ymmv. I can get louder than acoustic drums, so it is more volume than I need.
     
    murphy and GrapeBass like this.
  13. murphy

    murphy

    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    The high distortion through a 210 scared me off buying that amp...wish i had known about changing V1.....and 310 or 410 is the minimum speaker number I would use...never a 210
     
  14. GrapeBass

    GrapeBass

    Jun 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Graphic designer: Yorkville Sound
    Depending on the impedance, which you can switch... When I have a 16 ohm sealed 210 and it behaves great when in 8 ohm mode. Also, make use of the Resonance control and dial in the damping factor!
     
    murphy likes this.
  15. OP,
    MrMatt1972's rig is likely the way to go if you want to haul around 2 cabinets and not match them. The 1x15 cannot move as much air as the 4x10. The 2x10 and 1x15 are more evenly matched.
     

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