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Trying to find replacement crossover for discontinued cab. Need help.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by electrichead, May 1, 2018.


  1. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    I have a PA speaker with a bad crossover that needs replacing. Took it to the local tech and he told me it was not worth fixing once I add in his labor. Figure I might give a go at fixing or replacing it myself. I have it out but don't know the first thing about crossovers or where to begin. The manufacturer no longer exists and I can't find any usable info on the web about this cab.

    Cab is same as is for sale here; Audio Centron CE-156 Speaker Cabinet Pair by SLM Electronics
     
  2. filmtex

    filmtex

    May 29, 2011
    Something like this "2 Way Speaker Crossover, 12 dB/Ocatave, 2000 Hz" might do the trick. A passive crossover basically takes the speaker feed from your power amp and passively splits it a a determined frequency, in this case 2000 hz, into two signals which feed, respectively, the woofer and tweeter. Everything, more or less, above 2000 hz gets directed to the tweeter-labeled +/- T connectors, while everything below 2000 hz goes to the +/- W connectors. The important specs are, how much power does it handle-in this case 300 watts (though the actual power rating isn't specified as peak or RMS, I'm assuming RMS), what kind of (impedence) load will it "show" the power amp (8 ohms here), and lastly, at what rate does it do the "crossing over" 12db/octave is pretty common for passive crossovers like this. Poke around on this site or PartsExpress Dayton Audio XO2W-2.5K 2-Way Speaker Crossover and you'll see a few others. The power and frequency handling ratings of your component speakers also have some bearing, as matching the crossover to them is also a consideration, obviously, but these should get you started anyways. Good luck.
     
  3. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    Thanks for the info. It does add a new question though. On the current crossover the jacks and 5 pin plug for the speaker wires are mounted directly to the board. If I were to go with a repalcement like you linked, what method would I use to make the new connections?

    Here are pics of the existing crossover;
    20180501_220601. 20180501_220624.
     
  4. byacey

    byacey

    May 16, 2008
    Alberta, Canada
    I'm glad you posted a picture; I was curious to see what kind of crossover isn't worth the expense to repair.

    Did you take it to a real technician, or a dabbler hobbyist? There's not a lot to go wrong on such a simple crossover aside from solder joints, the biamp switching jack intermittent, an open resistor, or a cap, in that order of likelihood. None of those components are worth more than 3 or 4 dollars each, at the most. Being liberal with time, labor shouldn't be more than a half hour.

    Edit: Forget what I said about the biamp jack; those are just paralleled in/out jacks. Check the solder joint in the bottom picture directly underneath the RH top philips screw; it looks cracked.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
    beans-on-toast and agedhorse like this.
  5. Paulabass

    Paulabass Supporting Member

    Sep 18, 2017
    ^ I agree, that's really simple crossover, and should be cheap and easy to fix.
    If you do replace it, and assuming p.a. Cabs are in pairs, you'll probably want to replace them both, to keep the symetry.
    Your chances of finding one with board mounted jacks is practically nil. Mount the crossover elsewhere and run wires to the jacks. Probable a good time to replace those 1/4" jacks with speakon.

    Edit- the first thing I'd check is those cheapo jacks, and the solder joints holding them to the board.
     
    Aqualung60 and electrichead like this.
  6. Thundar

    Thundar Living in sin at the Holiday Inn

    I just happened to click on this thread, and I'll be damned if I don't have 3 of these same PA cabs stacked in the corner! Ive been using them as monitors for years
     
    electrichead likes this.
  7. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    If the tech can't fix that crossover in 30 minutes or less, well maybe they are not cut out for this line of work.

    Have you ruled out the drivers?-
     
  8. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    Thanks for all the replies guys.

    The tech is a pro who has been working successfully around here for over 40 years and he has serviced other equipment of mine in the past. He has been great but I think he has been lessening his workload on stuff like this and focusing on bigger higher dollar jobs. I thought it seemed strange but as a small business owner myself I don't fault him for his position.

    I stripped this out quick just to get a photo for you guys so it may be the bad one ore the good one of the pair. I haven't been able to check the drivers because I was getting no signal through to them. Since this one is out I'm going to take the other out tomorrow to compare them and test the drivers in the defective cab.

    A visual inspection of the solder joints on this one seems everything looks good and solid, but again, in my haste I may have grabbed the good one.

    It looks solid here in person, just a trick of the light from the camera flash.

    After looking at replacements I see most just have In +/-, W +/-, T +/-. What might that fifth wire on my harness be and if replacing the crossover(s) what should I do with it?
     
  9. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Get it fixed by a qualified tech who wants to work. That's by far the best way to get your problem resolved (assuming it's the crossover, which I wouldn't assume)
     
    electrichead likes this.
  10. byacey

    byacey

    May 16, 2008
    Alberta, Canada
    If that's the case, he would do better by being honest with the customer, rather than saying it's not worth fixing.
    Best way to stay in business is to be honest and fair with your customers, large or small.
     
  11. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    True, though I am embracing the chance to learn something new.

    I agree. Unfortunately, running a respected business in high demand from a good reputation sometimes clouds the judgement of owners both small and large. He's got a backlog of months at times and people are willing to wait. Closing in on retirement with no one in line to take it over likely has a role as well.


    I'll follow up here tomorrow after I test/inspect both crossovers and the drivers.
     
  12. byacey

    byacey

    May 16, 2008
    Alberta, Canada
    If you have both crossovers out, it's easy to narrow the problem down to the speakers, IDC connectors and leads, or the crossover. What specifically isn't working?
     
  13. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    I will narrow it down tomorrow after work and report back.
     
  14. Hand slap

    Hand slap

    Feb 14, 2016
    I use to be a service center for Audio Centron, I rarely found component failure in crossover, if anything maybe broken leads, but the glue minimizes that. Any tech should be able to troubleshoot ALL PARTS IN a matter of minutes. Most parts are available, the Inductors, would be the difficult parts to find, if neeeded. That is my .02
     
    electrichead likes this.
  15. Rick James

    Rick James

    Feb 24, 2007
    New Jersey
    What makes you think the crossovers are bad? When they do get destroyed by too much power the heat damage incurred tends to be pretty obvious.
     
    electrichead likes this.
  16. john m

    john m Supporting Member

    Jan 15, 2006
    The cross over “ looks” good.

    What component is bad?

    I’d get a second opinion before you go swapping out parts.
     
    electrichead likes this.
  17. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    As has been said, the crossover is easy to fix if that is the problem.

    These documents will help with the technical details. Your crossover looks like it was an earlier revision that had the jacks mounted directly on the board.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Wasnex

    Wasnex

    Dec 25, 2011
    The OP can reject the tech's advice, but he will need to pay whatever the eventual repair costs are....which may easily be more than the speaker is worth. Keep in mind that a good used working pair of these go for $200.

    Now as a do it yourself "fun" project...totally worth it if the OP is into that sort of thing. I would check the drivers before messing with the crossovers.
     
    Bim1959 and electrichead like this.
  19. electrichead

    electrichead

    Nov 29, 2013
    This guy gets it.


    As promised, I'm back with an update. The good, the bad, and the easy.

    1. The good: Having removed and inspected both crossovers I was able to identify the problem
    2. The bad: I am an idiot, plain and simple. Upon removing the second crossover I quickly saw the obvious issue. Had I not grabbed the wrong one I would have landed directly at part 3 instead of going through all this runaround.
    3. The easy: One input jack has a cracked plastic housing which doesn't allow a complete and solid connection. The second jack is in tact but all three solder joints were cracked.

    Extra credit: I resoldered the 3 cracked joints and the cab works works. I would like to replace the broken one but now I've got to thinking about these flimsy jacks. There is plenty of room on the jack plate for speakon inputs and I have space in the cab to remount the board using longer stand off spacers to accommodate.

    If I wanted to upgrade the jacks would I just need to run wires from the existing board connections to the new jacks?
    Can anyone recommend the proper jack for this application?
     
    Wasnex and Thundar like this.
  20. tchristian

    tchristian Supporting Member

    Nov 18, 2011
    Missoula, MT
    I've had a few cheap 2-way Carvin wedges in my arsenal for years. Common failure point with them is the solder joint holding the jack to the board. On stage a cable gets yanked or a plug gets bumped or kicked and the speaker "fails". Easy enough to reflow some solder joints. .02
     
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