# turning 2x10 on its side

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by theshadow2001, Dec 14, 2005.

Jun 17, 2004
Ireland
Apparantly vertical speaker arrays are meant to be better than horizontal arrays. however I dont understand why turning a 2x10 cab on its side as has been mentioned on the forum a couple of times has any affect on how sound is produced or waves interfere with each other. Surely the way sound is produced is going to be the same regardless of what orientation the cabinet is in.

2. ### wurmhole

Apr 10, 2004
College Station, TX
Yes, the sound will be produced the same way, however, the pattern of interference between the speakers does rotate when you rotate the speakers. That make sense?

Jun 17, 2004
Ireland
Nope!

How does the pattern of interferance rotate when the speaker rotates. I suppose that this is where I'm having difficulty. The speakers are still the same distance apart still the same shape etc. What is the variable that changes to cause this difference in interferance.

4. ### Groundloop

Jun 21, 2005
Toronto
Ummmm. The distance from the speakers to the floor?

5. ### Cristo

Jun 10, 2005
South Carolina, USA
In simplified and probably not 100% scientifically accurate terms,

The interference occurs because of the distance betwen the centers of the two speakers.

When the cab is horizontal, this distance is in the same plane as the plane in which people tend to move (we walk across the room, not up and down in it.)

By turning the cab vertical, the interference still occurs, but it would only be observable to a person moving vertically.

6. ### stedtale

Cristo, you just stole my thunder

7. ### wurmhole

Apr 10, 2004
College Station, TX
Ok, interference happens because you are listening to two (or more) speakers that are slightly different distances from your head. If the pair is the the horizontal plane, as you walk back and forth in front of the speakers the difference the distances between you and each speaker changes. Now rotate the speakers into the vertical plane. As you walk back and forth in front of the speakers now there is no difference in the distance between your ears and the speakers. This phenomena is called comb filtering. With that search term you should be set regardless.

8. ### Crockettnj

Sep 2, 2005
North NJ
If you notice people in the audience mostly stationary and head banging, i recommend a horizontal cab. If they are mostly dancing, walking, or randomly moving about, try the vert array.

no, really though, cristo nailed it as far as i understand it. await those who know more to correct/add... if not, cristo got it.

(add to his coments that one or more speakers of the 2x10 or 3x10 etc setup vertically are going to be further from the floor, and therefore potentially less floor coupling. also, they are potentially more in line with your ears, so you hear it clearer at lower volumes, and therefore turn turn and maybe (?) sound different in the mix.)

Jun 17, 2004
Ireland
Ok I did a little search and I think I have a fair idea of how this works. Vertically stacking doesnt reduce combfiltering it just makes it less apparant.More constant around the room than horizontal arrays. Just one point regradless if you have them stacked vertically or horizontally the speakers are still in the vertical plane. If they were facing the roof they would be on the horizontal plane.

10. ### Cristo

Jun 10, 2005
South Carolina, USA
Yes, we are referring however to the line connecting the center of the speakers. When the cab is horizontal, so is this line.

Because of this distance, there is comb filtering; by using vertical stacking you put the comb filtering into a plane where it usually will not be an issue.

Jun 17, 2004
Ireland
ok your taking that line as a horizontal plane i get you now

I do sort of get the idea but the only way I think ill ever truly understand this is with diagrams

12. ### MODNYGuest

Nov 9, 2004
i use my 2x8 cab standing vertically and it sounds great

13. ### 4MalSupporting Member

Jun 2, 2002
Columbia River Gorge
I stack my 2x10's vertically so I get the top driver closer to my ear where I can hear it better. like ...

You also get fewer " frequency response lobe's" this way. When you have the typical 'square 4x10' arrangement. The speakers interact with each other up and down as well as side to side. Great sound close up but can be nasty from a distance.

Of ourse you have to deal with the goofy look of your head hanging over the cab's ...

14. ### IvanMikePlayer Characters fear me...Supporting Member

Nov 10, 2002
Middletown CT, USA
a search for vertical arrays will bring up a lot on this topic.

PA guys know that vertical is the way to go. there are lots of horizontal arrays in trash heaps these days.

I've done enough experimenting to be sold on using vertical arrays, listening from a variety of distances.

15. ### K2000

Nov 16, 2005
Brooklyn
Sometimes I see guys laying big cabs on their sides, in a stack... like an Ampeg 8x10 on it's side, with a second 8x10 laying on its side on top.

I've also seen this done with two 2x15 cabs. On their sides, stacked.

Are these bass players making a mistake? Just curious.

16. ### Eric Cioe

Jun 4, 2001
Missoula, MT
Trying for maximum floor coupling, perhaps?

17. ### K2000

Nov 16, 2005
Brooklyn
I dunno...?

Seems to me that the floor coupling would be the same (?) Now that I think about it the vertical array would be the same too (?)

I don't get it...

18. ### billfitzmauriceCommercial User

Sep 15, 2004
New Hampshire
Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Yes.

19. ### Mickey Shanewhat goes here?

Feb 23, 2003
Denton, Texas
Two 8-10s stacked vertically would be dangerous without guide wires.

20. ### jokerjkny

Jan 19, 2002
NY / NJ / PA
because if you do, your amp will blow up.

really.